Are you for or against Data Centers?

[ATex7239]

I love that people are for them as long as they are in someone else’s backyard.

It’s gotta go somewhere. If not here than in other countries which may or may not always like us. There is a data center that open up in my small town years back and it brought jobs and boosted the economy. Huge boom as a result. If anyone does not like it here then they can always sell and move further away. And if they sold their property today they would likely net a health profit. And I’m sure they wouldn’t turn away that net gain on the principle due the data center increasing home values as well.

Everybody wants the positives but doesn’t want any of the negatives.

 

[Leo99]

Who owns these data centers? There are a lot of Amazon warehouses near me. Do datacenters look like that? Are they that large? Have I seen one and not known it?

We had AI training at work several times and I finally dipped my toe in and, wow. It's amazing what it can do. I had to find some old emails on a very specific topic. AI not only found them, but tabulated them and pulled summaries and categorized them. Would have taken me an hour to do that. AI did it in 5 minutes.

 

[Hall]

With the building explosion of data centers are you for or against them?

I am against them. They are noisy, use lots of water and too much power.

@wwillson, could you tell members here where BITOG is (co-)hosted ?

 

[wwillson]

@wwillson, could you tell members here where BITOG is (co-)hosted ?

In a data center.

 

[ATex7239]

In a data center.

Inconceivable!

 

[SC Maintenance]

I love that people are for them as long as they are in someone else’s backyard.

There are three fairly near me and a huge 4th one going in 10 miles away. At least they put them in industrial areas.

However I got a letter maybe a year ago saying my water service fee is going up 20% an the water itself going up 30% saying it is to "expand infrastructure". Our water district is not for profit and established in 1965, no one I can find can remember any such increase - a few percentage points a year maybe. I think I know where that money is going.

A decade ago we tried to build a nuclear reactor and our government bankrupt our utlitity. We never got the reactor, and now we pay much more for electricity via Domninion.

So suddenly we have water and electricity for a bunch of Data Centers?

I am fine with them, but these companies need to pay there own way. The ones around here are all Google. I think they can afford it.

 

[wander2039]

I'm for them but not near population centers. Plenty of unused land near rivers in rural areas, power might be a issue but with enough intuition it's solvable.

 

[spasm3]

I'm for them but not near population centers. Plenty of unused land near rivers in rural areas, power might be a issue but with enough intuition it's solvable.

I'm of the opposite opinion. Put them in the city setting, don't screw up the countryside putting those there. Why run extra wiring a utilities way out. Put it in the middle of the city.

 

[SC Maintenance]

I'm of the opposite opinion. Put them in the city setting, don't screw up the countryside putting those there. Why run extra wiring a utilities way out. Put it in the middle of the city.

There are commercial areas in the city they could go.

They likely don't have the utility infrastructure needed, and adding new in the city is more expensive. Again - they don't want to pay there own way.

 

[SC Maintenance]

@wwillson, could you tell members here where BITOG is (co-)hosted ?

The massive and rapid build out of datacenters - $1 Trillion committed just by the big guys - is for AI compute mostly, not more traditional uses.

I am willing to bet a bunch will be sitting empty in a few years as the chips become faster and less power hungry, and they figure out giving away LLM use for free so high school kids can cheat on there paper is a bad business proposition.

 

[ATex7239]

There are commercial areas in the city they could go.

They likely don't have the utility infrastructure needed, and adding new in the city is more expensive. Again - they don't want to pay their own way.

Not always. It depends on the provider/municipality. I work in the electrical industry, and I have actually been directly involved with negotiations with utilities on power needs for heavy industrial and commercial facilities. The utility providers are not stupid. They know exactly how much power is being consumed and should expect a certain amount of capital to offset infrastructure costs. A lot of times that could be up front investment or guaranteed contracts, but if they’re passing it all along to the individual users then that’s a screw job. Blame your local govt reps for that.

 

[Hall]

With the building explosion of data centers are you for or against them?

I am against them.

Using social media, i.e. BITOG, Facebook, etc - you're using data centers

Shopping online through Amazon, Walmart, etc, or browsing websites like Lowes, etc - you're using data centers

Searching the internet via any search engine - you're using data centers

Posting on the internet about disliking or being against data centers - you're using data centers.

 

[Hall]

Do datacenters look like that? Are they that large? Have I seen one and not known it?

Here's one we drive by frequently: https://www.google.com/maps/place/H...try=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI2MDQyMS4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw==

Satellite view of the same: https://www.google.com/maps/place/H...try=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI2MDQyMS4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw==

 

[SC Maintenance]

Not always. It depends on the provider/municipality. I work in the electrical industry, and I have actually been directly involved with negotiations with utilities on power needs for heavy industrial and commercial facilities. The utility providers are not stupid. They know exactly how much power is being consumed and should expect a certain amount of capital to offset infrastructure costs. A lot of times that could be up front investment or guaranteed contracts, but if they’re passing it all along to the individual users then that’s a screw job. Blame your local govt reps for that.

When industrial companies come to town they negotiate everything out in the open, like who pays for what. And yes the local govco will pay for a lot because there going to employ X number of people.

When Google came to town they did it in the dead of night, under the name "Garnett Industries LLC" or something like that. Much easier to go under the radar. The data center looks like one more commercial warehouse holding goods coming in from the Port. And yes, of course all the politicians likely got paid.

If they were so on the up and up they would not hide behind a nondescript LLC.

 

[RooflessVW]

How do they pollute? It's just a bunch of electronics, cooling towers and electricity. The only type of plant that I wouldn't like right next to a neighborhood would be a metal stamping plant but even then modern presses are super quiet and low vibration.

There are data centers with dozens of gas turbine / diesel generators feeding them power instead of connecting to the grid.

So in addition to fresh water consumption, instead of polluting by increased energy consumption, they pollute directly by using generators, sometimes illegally.

 

[Vil_Riker]

It's part of the mass surveilance

When industrial companies come to town they negotiate everything out in the open, like who pays for what. And yes the local govco will pay for a lot because there going to employ X number of people.

When Google came to town they did it in the dead of night, under the name "Garnett Industries LLC" or something like that. Much easier to go under the radar. The data center looks like one more commercial warehouse holding goods coming in from the Port. And yes, of course all the politicians likely got paid.

If they were so on the up and up they would not hide behind a nondescript LLC.

They are building infrastructure for mass surveillance - sometimes you keep these things secret.

 

[zzyzzx]

As you mentioned also there an industrial enterprise - they should be built in properly zoned industrial parks. You don't find stamping houses next to residential subdivisions.

Why would you care if a datacenter was next door?
Probably better than a lot of potential neighbors, I should think.

 

[SC Maintenance]

Why would you care if a datacenter was next door?
Probably better than a lot of potential neighbors, I should think.

Constant high pitch hum from the cooling systems and transformers. Commercial generators kicking in possibly. Lots of complaints.

A couple miles away - sure no problem.

 

[Vercingetorix]

With the billions that Bezos has, he could put them underground and probably make them absolutely silent and unobtrusive. That would cost .003% of his vast fortune though.

 

[Kestas]

They need to find better choices for location. There's a lot of underutilized brown land with full infrastructure in Detroit and Livonia. There's no need to build on green land.