Are you for or against Data Centers?

[PandaBear]

When I started doing inspections (audits) of facilities of pharmaceutical suppliers, I'd visit a lot of data centers. There were hidden away in plain site. Usually the basement of a building or what appeared the basement but was actually a cave underground. I'd go and visit the server used for my company and call it good. I'd mostly go because there data centers were such cool places to visit. There were about half the size of a football field. Nothing huge but still, that's a lot of computers in one place. Later, companies moved away from dedicated data centers and moved to AWS and the like and we didn't know where the data was stored. They had primaries servers with secondaries running full time. Plus tertiary backups. I don't know what they use now. It was a challenge for the pharmaceutical industry to not know the exact server where our data was stored. We've eventually gotten comfortable with it along with FDA.

I know a lot of cell phone towers used to have an analog fiber link back to the phone companies, then phone companies would route calls and data to each other. Lately a lot of them were just analog to digital converters on the tower and their digitized signals are sent directly to a data center, connecting to a card on a server, that routes the call and data to each other over the internet. They would also spin up and down data center and route those "calls" in and out of certain computers based on time and load. Your phone company is just a "virtual" computer inside a data center, or sit on the same server hosting BITOG and never left that one computer.

 

[Owen Lucas]

It's part of the mass surveilance

They are building infrastructure for mass surveillance - sometimes you keep these things secret.

Too late, that's been going on for ever and turbo-charged after 9/11.

New tech, just add an federal API or back door or "bug" for monitoring.

The impact of data centers and AI IMHO will be mass unemployment due to machines handlign mundane tasks we all can handle.

Will machine learning/vision be enhanced by them to help with the surveillance state? Sure, but that's been in the works for many years now.


Anyway, I'm fine with data centers as long as they are quiet, recycle water, don't impact the water table, or cause long term local disturbances. It's a race though and no one cares. Where are all the greenies complaining about NG cogen plants now?

 

[wwillson]

I know a lot of cell phone towers used to have an analog fiber link back to the phone companies, then phone companies would route calls and data to each other. Lately a lot of them were just analog to digital converters on the tower and their digitized signals are sent directly to a data center, connecting to a card on a server, that routes the call and data to each other over the internet. They would also spin up and down data center and route those "calls" in and out of certain computers based on time and load. Your phone company is just a "virtual" computer inside a data center.

That was in the olden days. Now, virtually all mobility calls are SIP (VoLTE) and the very few calls that are TDM (circuit based) may still use circuits back to a tandem switch, but those days are nearly over too. TDM equipment is old, dying and most isn't manufactured anymore.

The last 4ESS in the lower 48 was killed on December 10, 2025. The DMS and 5ESS are the next victims of the move from TDM to an entirely SIP world. I personally know the guy in charge of killing all TDM toll switches. He has done an amazing job at killing the switches, which the complexity is beyond comprehension for anyone not on the inside. Those on the inside that understand the complexity are amazed he pulled it off with virtually no interruption in service.

 

[PandaBear]

What an odd thing to do. Unless they heatsink the processors directly to the wall of the container, they are flowing cool water through a radiator system inside the container anyway. Why sink it and not just pump cold water through the radiator system pumped from below the surface. The only thing that makes sense is that there is some regulation that doesn't allow you to pump water out of the ocean and onto a land-based structure. Doing this in international waters would be strange as you need to supply the power and have a robust data pipe, which would cost a lot to get that far out.

My guess would be if they tie the containers' power directly to an off shore turbine. This way you don't need to worry about the grid as much, and you can use less copper for the transmission lne, as long as you have enough fiberoptics.

 

[SC Maintenance]

My guess is most of the increase has to do with LNG export ban being lifted so we now sell those gas instead of using it within the US, then the AI, then Ukraine, then Iran.

I remember the days when Shell and Chevron conventional was 29c / quart after rebates too, those days are not coming back.

Why guess. But no, we have a surplus of gas. LNG is delivered to Europe is different. Well it starts the same then it costs a lot to get it there.

 

[loneryder]

That is a local zoning issue

Amazon web services money says the residents have no say.

 

[Vil_Riker]

Amazon web services money says the residents have no say.

The local governments are broke so they will do everything to get a few dollars into the coffers. Dress it up as "it will help with property taxes" and most homeowners will be happy.

 

[Skippy722]

My guess is most of the increase has to do with LNG export ban being lifted so we now sell those gas instead of using it within the US, then the AI, then Ukraine, then Iran.

I remember the days when Shell and Chevron conventional was 29c / quart after rebates too, those days are not coming back.

Our utility can't charge more than market rate for gas, last month it was $0.3048/therm, April is $0.2577. But they get us on the delivery charges.... Last month was $19.09 in gas, $5.44 interstate pipeline transportation and storage contract fee of $5.44, then a whopping $53.59 for them to pipe it to my house. How they can ship it across multiple states and store it for $5 but once it hits their network it costs 10x more beats me.... They're currently under investigation by the state regulator

 

[rijndael]

With the building explosion of data centers are you for or against them?

I am in data centers Monday - Friday.

I'm for them when they're put in the right areas, like in industrial areas.

I'm against them when they buy up farm land, pay off the local county board to rezone it to industrial, and end up backing up to houses and neighborhoods.

I'm also for them, when they pay for their own infrastructure, rather than causing huge power bill spikes because of infrastructure spending by the utilities. I'm against them when they want to run gigantic 120' transmission lines near people's houses and don't want to bury them.

I'm also against them when they lobby the local politicians to get all of their taxes waived. It's not going to help your property taxes, at least not in my area.

The generators are definitely noisy, and there are sound nuances of running them at 3000 rpm vs 3600. 3600 is most common in the US because of the 60Hz generation. The wind can take the diesel fumes a long way.

Depending on the type of cooling towers, that can be noisy too.

Overall, the noise and smell close to homes is an issue.

Here's an example of where I'm against them:

 

[Finklejag]

Those people probably bought those houses because there was a corn field behind them.

 

[rijndael]

That home has been there since 2014; it definitely predates the data center.

FWIW: That's IAD125, an Amazon facility.

Here's an example of the sound issues I'm referring to:

 

[Oliveoil2]

Yes. They suck as much electricity and water as some medium size towns. NO upside!

 

[rijndael]

Yes. They suck as much electricity

H5's new facility is 42 Megawatts.

 

[The_Jeff]

If they were so on the up and up they would not hide behind a nondescript LLC.

That's everybody though; if you have a reputation for having money everybody wants a piece. Disney hid behind a corporate veil buying swampland in Orlando.

Though I agree that it's way too cheap and easy to get, then hide behind, an LLC in America.

 

[Oliveoil2]

H5's new facility is 42 Megawatts.

Right. 20-40k homes.

 

[The_Jeff]

Im all for data centers and I say build baby build!
Question? do you want the USA to remain the leader in the world or fall to 3rd world status. Because the country with the most computing power will be the most powerful.

At best whatever output AI comes out with will be used "for the good of the people". Realistically it will be used by the government instead and somewhat skewed in its priorities. Dystopially, Musk, Bezos, etc will just do what they want with it.

We hope AI will solve its own resource consumption issue by letting it develop better chips and software, but its inventor will give it keys to the kingdom on the assumption it will remain loyal. They'll let it get "just powerful enough" but the AI will outwit the human somehow.... And the the fun starts.

 

[Dave Hess]

H5's new facility is 42 Megawatts.

What city is that in the photo you posted ?

 

[rijndael]

What city is that in the photo you posted ?

Aldie, VA.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/JCj93GrXaCxg7RnUA

 

[Pew]

Microsoft has one, the problem is corrosion and maintenance. You have enough of them some hardware would go bad and it is pain in the butt to lift a whole container from the ocean bottom to replace a stick of ram, then seal it up and sink it back down. We also haven't talked about powering something undersea and connecting fibers to it being a lot more expensive.

Maybe for a huge hard drive bank for archiving so you don't need a lot of IO, and the whole thing goes out after 5 years of useful life regardless, but not for AI where things get updated all the time and parts being too new and can break very easily. Regardless it is probably easier to just rent a plot of land in Iceland.

Imagine getting that ticket.

Scuba to middle of ocean
change failed drive 4
Invoice: $10,000.
Travel time: 8 hours

 

[dogememe]

BTW, you don’t need a datacenter in your back yard to learn about AI.

You can do a lot with a $30 Grok or $20 Gemini or $20 ChatGPT plan.

Or if you prefer privacy you can always buy a cheap cars worth of computer parts and build your own AI “server” This is my second one…