Are VW's that bad!?

[VeeDubb]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete

But I won't force anyone else to think the way I think. For a lot of people driving is a chore and a necessary evil.



Exactly. It gets old and tiring to hear the appliance thumpers trying to shove reliability down everyone's throats as if that is the only criteria that should be used to evaluate a car. If they ruled the world, we'd see nothing but Toyota corolla's on the road. Wouldn't life be grand then?

The difference between the Toyotas we've owned and the VWs is about 2-3 unscheduled dealership trips per year. And during the other 363 days, I get to suffer the boredom of driving the Toyota. The benefit cost tradeoff is easy for me personally.

 

[TooManyWheels]

You are suggesting that a dichotomy between fun and reliability exists, and that if you value fun then it is a sufficient justification for buying a VW. Other people realize that you can have both fun and reliability, (although most likely not in a VW) and are not willing to compromise their best interests the way you are.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: TooManyWheels
Other people realize that you can have both fun and reliability,

In the same vehicle? Which one? Usually, the more fun it is, the more unreliable it'll be. Some of it stems from the fact that in order to have fun, you end up driving it harder. And if you drive it hard, some things are just more likely to break.

 

[crw]

Well, here you go, I'll throw a bone to the VW haters out there, a classic example.

I need to replace the coolant temp sensor on my VW. This is a part that was typically bad in my model year, and VW redesigned the part.

It costs less than $5.00, and takes two minutes to replace. All of this can be figured out over the internet... full color photos with expert commentary (if anyone actually needs such). Purchase the part, install it and move on.

By the way, it hasn't left me stranded. It's just slow to rise and show the temp of the coolant.

Legend has it that VW dealers charge hundreds just to replace this part!!! Meanwhile, I'm going to pay five bucks and change it myself. These days, with the information available on the internet, not to mention repair manuals, there is no reason to go to the dealer!

Unless your car is under warranty, going to the dealer is a last resort. When the service manager sees you, he sees "$$$". Get ready to pay at least triple digits for ANYTHING! (Except maybe an oil change, I don't know, I don't go there.)

I'll give you that VW dealers appear to be among the worst. On the other hand, good luck finding any dealer who is leading the way to affordable service.

 

[XS650]

Originally Posted By: crw
It's like this... recently Car and Driver, who has been gushing about the Corvette (rightly so, for the most part) for years, then after all this time, Chevrolet decides to really "engineer" the steering. Better parts, less play in the gearing, etc. All of a sudden it's a new car! Wow! The 2008 Corvette actually has steering that doesn't wander on the freeway.



The improvement for 2008 was a real improvement, but it made the steering less dead feeling, it didn't fix a non-existent wander problem.

'course most of them come from the factory poorly aligned because Festus back in Bowling Green has about 5 minutes to align them on the assembly line.

A C6 Corvette usually will benefit from a wheel alignment the day it rolls out of the factory. It is a Chevy after all.

 

[VeeDubb]

Originally Posted By: TooManyWheels
You are suggesting that a dichotomy between fun and reliability exists, and that if you value fun then it is a sufficient justification for buying a VW. Other people realize that you can have both fun and reliability, (although most likely not in a VW) and are not willing to compromise their best interests the way you are.


Yes, you can get both fun and reliability if you are willing to pay $$$$. Infinitis come to mind, but I personally don't believe in paying more than about $20k for a car. Given my personal constraint, VWs are hard to beat. That does not mean other people have the same constraints. For someone who has an open wallet, they can buy all the fun and reliability they want.

 

[Audi Junkie]

I just want to plug BOSCH Service for all Euro cars as being the best place to go. Better than dealer work at indy prices and no need for LIST prices on parts, they get you a good deal on the part and then give the same 12mo/12k warranty as the dealership, on the part and the LABOUR!!!

 

[TooManyWheels]

Now we are more in agreement. There is a car, or several, for everyone's situations. I just took a little exception to the implication that people who wanted/needed reliability were fuddy-duddies who didn't also want/need fun. But yes, economics is often the primary factor that drives you to make compromises you would rather not.

 

[rpn453]

Originally Posted By: crw
I changed the AT fluid. No, it doesn't have a dipstick, but if you KNOW HOW to do it, it's the simplest one I've ever done. Dare I say, dipsticks are for dipsticks? I mean, come on, if there is a smarter, simpler way to do it, why route a dipstick up to the top of the engine bay?


I agree that tranny dipsticks aren't that important. Unlike an engine, there's nowhere the oil can go but onto the ground. My mother's Sunfire has no dipstick on the tranny. I change the fluid every 30k miles and I think the check plugs are just as good as a dipstick.

 

[VeeDubb]

Originally Posted By: TooManyWheels


Now we are more in agreement. There is a car, or several, for everyone's situations. I just took a little exception to the implication that people who wanted/needed reliability were fuddy-duddies who didn't also want/need fun. But yes, economics is often the primary factor that drives you to make compromises you would rather not.


I agree with you that variety is the spice of life and to each his own. I wrote a harsh initial post as a response to those who think reliability is all that matters and you are an idiot if you don't agree with them. And then they draw the universal conclusion that VW suck, no ifs or buts. BTW, I didn't mean to offend Toyota owners. I own a toyota myself.

 

[alanu]

I love my VW......even with wheelies like that my fairweather daily driver still runs 11's on chevron pumpgas. This car is my "fun" car not a primary car concerned about reliability.

http://members.shaw.ca/aircooled/640twoBugs.jpg

Mind you thats the only VW I would ever buy. If you look at the grand scheme of things the bottom line of purchasing a car should be looking at the big picture NOT the initial purchase cost. Maintenance is whats gonna nickel and dime you to death!!!

The list of howling wheel bearings, water pump propellars disapearing, coil packs failing, even smoking switches for seat warmers!!! etc etc.

I would say let the VW die hards buy their prized gems. For people that are very concerned of down time I would NOT consider buying such a car.

Many of my customers that have switched from VW to japanese imports (acura, honda/, toyo's) wonder why they have more money in their pockets. Not being sarcastic since this is easily recognized with many shop owners databases. Maintenance is what kills a VW owner.

 

[VeeDubb]

Originally Posted By: alanu


If you look at the grand scheme of things the bottom line of purchasing a car should be looking at the big picture NOT the initial purchase cost. Maintenance is whats gonna nickel and dime you to death!!!



True but the average VW has a longer bumper to bumper and powertrain warranty than Toyota or Honda. I owned a 2002 Passat which is one of the worst rated years in terms of reliability. I had a total of about 6 unscheduled visits to the dealer from 02 to 06, all covered by warranty. The worse down time was for an AM radio problem for which they had to order an antenna, which took a week. But that problem may have also been caused by the dude who took down the ceiling liner to fix some hail damage.

 

[moribundman]

Originally Posted By: VeeDubb
The worse down time was for an AM radio problem


MWWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

 

[qezel]

anyone who can hold a wrench can fix a VW.. its "foreign".. so like all other "foreign" cars.. if you bring it to the idiot down the street who has a lift and claims to be a shop, or the dealer who also hires idiots, then yes it will be expensive to fix.. i'm an audi guy, with some roots in old vw's, but if it's not riding on an A1 chassis, i won't go anywhere near it.. vw's havent been good since the 10v was in the quantum and the 8v was still a 1.8 and all the ports were jammed into the firewall... and anyone complaining about your terrible mk4 with a 2.slow in it, your rings are in upside down and scrape oil into the combustion chamber, you can find stuff about it online, not sure if you can fight it though... an old 8v 1.8 will outlast most 4 cylinders, and even though its technically an audi engine, the old 5 cylinders will be running long after all your engines have worn themselves to dust.. find me another 115hp 2.2L motor with an entire forged bottom end from the factory... i got 246k on my '84 4kq with only suspension, brakes, and a couple hydraulic bits fixed.. my windows and sunroof all work, my hvac all works, i even have the original clutch. people are too quick to knock these cars when stuff starts "falling off them".. these cars have far different histories than most merc's and bmw's.. people slam these doors.. drunk kids drive them, things are thrown in them, everything is abused.. and i'll say it again, even if everything else on the car, any idiot can get an old vw/audi to run in some sort of manner.

 

[Audi Junkie]

Gezel, your post sounds just like some of mine. We had a Quantum Syncro Wagon that was incredible and reliable. We still tool around in the old Coupe GT with 245k and nothing more serious than a strut job. All original clutch, timing belt water puymp, radiator and alt. Only struts, exhaust and a starter are new. Mom's '98 Passat 2.Slow burns zero oil and is again...a car with narly an issue. Anyone who can change a window switch, tighten a starter wire, lube a door handle will do fine with them. Even the dirty old Jetta 2 which I hate, my female cousin drove hers 250k in Maine weather with nill service with no more than struts and starter stuff.

Safety is another area where these cars excell.

One pet feature of mine is low speed impact study. They take cars and bump them into a pole, smack the corner into a wall and such, then price the repairs. Cars like Focus, Mazda 6 and Sorento etc needed $3k to fix them from a few bumps. I kid you ot, VW Golf, Beetle and A6 had $0-$200 in damage. The reference to kids driving them reminded me.

Also, ask Saab owners why they drive them, it's not for reliability.

 

[qezel]

haha btdt with the SAAB's as well.. my mom drove a '97 9k Aero, which btw is secretly one of the fastest stock cars to ever hit the streets... and my dad had a '91 900s 4 door.. which is one of the slowest cars to ever hit the streets... both were pretty reliable, but man when something went wrong, when you're used to working on german cars, you might as well be sitting there with your thumb up your a$$ wishing it would all happen magically.. ha.. nah once you figure out how they were going about doing everything the way they did, especially in the 900 which is all backwards, they're not that bad, just strange and quirky

 

[Jett Rink]

I don't have any dogs in this fight, since I haven't ever owned a VW. I've driven a Golf and a Jetta, however, and did enjoy how they drove. So I can see why someone would choose them over say, a Corolla.

All the complaints in this thread about having to do minor repairs just boggles my mind. This is BITOG, for crying out loud, where guys are routinely changing synethetic oil in below 5,000 mile intervals. Anybody doing that just enjoys tinkering with cars for the heck of it. Don't give me this stuff about how you dislike having to give your ride a little extra TLC if you are that obsessive about oil.

 

[Tornado Red]

Originally Posted By: badtlc
Everyone I know had electrical gremlins with their VWs, but I think that is common with just about every european car maker.

256k miles. Electrical problems since new:
1) MAF sensor probs at 32k miles. Fixed under warranty.
2) Clutch switch replaced at 50k miles under warranty.
3) Flasher relay replaced at 125k miles. $22
4) alternator replaced at 180k miles
5) starter replaced at 209k miles. probably unnecessary, just needed clutch dust cleaned out of bushing.

Originally Posted By: XS650
The Jetta has some soul even if it is cut below the others in reliability. Mine was built in Germany instead of Mexico like most of them, so it may be a bit more reliable. It feels like it was meant to be driven and is more comfortable on an 800+ mile day than some much more expensive cars.

Even on the VW TDI forum, many of the owners concede that VWs have more minor problems that the Japanese competition, but late VWs are still solid cars after 200-300k miles.

VW TDIs may be slightly less reliable during the first 100k miles. But I'll wager that, if they are properly maintained, they are more reliable during the next 200k-400k miles. They are not a car that one throws away after 100k or even 200k miles.

My Golf was built in Brazil, and still doesn't have any rattles. I don't know about the Mexican-built Jettas or New Beetles, but I think the Passats built in Germany are probably the most trouble-prone VW models sold in North America.

I can put 1800-2000 miles on the Golf in 32-36 hours, and not be totally wasted. Or I can drive 8 hours a day, five days a week, and enjoy every minute of it.

I try to stay away from VW dealerships whenever possible. But when I do have to go there, it's usually not a good experience -- and that's at probably the best VW dealership in the county. If the dealerships were any good, the common problems would be fixed on the first trip to a dealership, and owners wouldn't have to go back again and again. It seems that all the best VW mechanics go to work at independent shops, or open their own.

Anyone looking to buy a new car, who plans to take it to a dealership for all maintenance and non-warranty repairs, should probably not buy a VW. OTOH, if someone likes to do their own oil changes and other routine maintenance, and is willing to shop around for a good independent shop for everything else, is a good candidate for a VW.

 

[lovcom]

Originally Posted By: wavinwayne
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: swalve
Founded... by Hitler!

http://ask.yahoo.com/20050308.html

Here we go again...

Hitler's war machine was also responsible, in a round-about sort of way, for helping develop the US ICBM Missle, and getting the US Space Program up & running, via Wernher von Braun.


Yea, yea, and the Crouts were also responsible for Der Weinersnitz restaurants too....man, I'm staying off the freeways...all you that continue to drive them support Hitler!

By the way, I assure you all that the Nazi's were NOT responsible for American ICBM missles...this is [censored]...

 

[01rangerxl]

Maybe not directly, but didn't the V2 kind of put the idea in their head?