One of the reasons we are considering enabling Question type threads, so great answers can be upvoted.
Are there a lot of Rich BITOGers?
- Thread starter ad244
- Start date
I wasn’t suggesting that at all.
But I was suggesting that you have to sift through a lot of sand to find the valuable nuggets of wisdom posted.
I stand by that.
If you read through the threads on almost any topic, you’ll often see a few really knowledgeable folks get drowned out, simply by the sheer number of posts from those who have a far lower experience level or understanding on that particular topic.
We’ve never moderated ignorance in posts, or lack of experience. As long as posts follow forum rules, such as avoiding the topics of religion, sex, or politics, and refraining from personal criticism and attack, those posts, be they brilliant, or be they dumb, are allowed to stand.
That achieves precisely what you’re asking for: free debate, a chance to hear all sides of an argument or topic.
There‘s no chance that we are going to moderate uninformed posts, or cordon off parts of the site for ”elite“ members, as that would stifle discussion, and stifle the chance to discover. It is precisely that chance that you, as well as everyone else, value on BITOG.
But allowing free debate means allowing the uninformed posts to stand.
And it’s not uncommon for those uninformed posts to greatly outnumber the well-informed posts.
That one is a great book. It rocked peoples’ perception of the wealthy when it came out over 20 years ago.
To answer your question, I think it depends on your objectives. Personal financial management? Investing? Understanding markets? There are some great books that I think should be in everyone’s reading list, as part of an education.
As @JeffKeryk would say, I think, part of financial literacy.
Last edited:
Have we defined well off? Having the Mercedes AMG or BMW in the driveway does not mean much if it is financed. Are we speaking of net worth (assets less liabilities) or just liquid assets, or annual income or????? A lot of definitions of wealth. Someone with a 20 year old vehicle, house paid for can have a pretty high net worth but just does not show it to the world.
Is a net worth of 1 million wealthy, maybe in rural MS but not in CA.
Is a net worth of 1 million wealthy, maybe in rural MS but not in CA.
If it’s a big club, I ain’t in it
I do not disagree with those points, all internet advise is to be taken at your own risk.
For some reason I read your post to be more of an attack on the posts of the inexperienced than a proceed with caution message. Maybe I should wait until I’m properly caffeinated before reading online forums.
I really like to hear the non conventional ways people have invested, be it a quick flip or long term. I’ve done both with collectibles in the past as it was at the time a market I was familiar with. Did decent long term on some comic books and really well on some quick flip action figures. An area most would laugh at, however as stated in a previous post I didn’t take crypto seriously when a friend explained all about it to me several years back. I’d say he’s doing quite well for himself at the moment and I missed the boat.
I refuse to be a member of any club that would let me in!
’cept this one, I think I can earn my way in.
Im sure there are many personal opinions but I’m impressed when one is financially independent and has enough money that their money make enough money for them to live on.
In my experience, the truly rich people I’ve known are usually generous, down-to-earth, good tippers, and are unconcerned with others perceptions, so they may wear clothing from Target and drive a nine year old Camry. It’s the near-rich posers who act entitled/snobby, bad tippers unless they are trying to impress someone, dress in designer names, drive (usually leased) luxury nameplates, and live in a nice house (but a tiny yard and driveway).
I work in a low-paying, but great benefits state job, and my wife is attorney. We could be posers if we wanted to, we’d rather spend on what makes us happy vs. flexing wealth on others. Heck, nearly all of our furniture is used and our newest vehicle is a 2004… but we have five 35+ year-old vehicles acquired for
I grew up middle-class, was a poor young adult, and now a comfortable 30-something.
I work in a low-paying, but great benefits state job, and my wife is attorney. We could be posers if we wanted to, we’d rather spend on what makes us happy vs. flexing wealth on others. Heck, nearly all of our furniture is used and our newest vehicle is a 2004… but we have five 35+ year-old vehicles acquired for
I grew up middle-class, was a poor young adult, and now a comfortable 30-something.
I missed the boat on crypto completely. Never held any. Doesn't bother me at all that I "missed out" because, frankly, for everyone who tells you how much they made in crypto, you've got ten folks who are very quiet about the losses they took.I do not disagree with those points, all internet advise is to be taken at your own risk.
For some reason I read your post to be more of an attack on the posts of the inexperienced than a proceed with caution message. Maybe I should wait until I’m properly caffeinated before reading online forums.
I really like to hear the non conventional ways people have invested, be it a quick flip or long term. I’ve done both with collectibles in the past as it was at the time a market I was familiar with. Did decent long term on some comic books and really well on some quick flip action figures. An area most would laugh at, however as stated in a previous post I didn’t take crypto seriously when a friend explained all about it to me several years back. I’d say he’s doing quite well for himself at the moment and I missed the boat.
Call that the "Vegas Rule" - people will brag about their wins, and hide their losses. So, what you're hearing about crypto is a lot like what you hear about Vegas - everyone came back having won a bit at the casinos, right?
But that is simply, mathematically, impossible. Those casinos weren't built to give money away to gamblers...
I've also made it a rule not to invest in things I don't really understand and to invest in things I do. Call it the "Peter Lynch Rule", if you like (Peter Lynch managed Fidelity's Magellan to extraordinary returns in the late 70's and 80's).
I understand Amazon - became an early customer, bought their stock.
I understand bulldozers, and bought CAT when their share price was beaten down in the summer of 2008. I reckoned that it was on sale, and we bought a few shares. I've held it since, re-investing dividends, and it's done well.
I thought I understood 3D printing, and lost a bit of money on a company called Stratasys. 90% of my investment. Poorly done on my part. Not a lot of the portfolio, though, because of another rule that I'm going to call "The 5% rule" - never have more than 5% of your portfolio in one individual stock. Sure, it limits the upside (wish I had put 50% of my portfolio in AMZN a decade ago, instead of following that rule) but it also protects you from the downside of company-specific risk. You won't ever get wiped out by the stupidity of one company's management team...like, well, Stratasys...
As far as generic reading for a financial literacy education?
I posted a list of books I have enjoyed, and recommend, a while back: https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/investors-come-in-please.28977/post-2250617
In various polls I have read, people’s perception of "rich" or “wealthy” ranges from $1.9 to $2.6 million net worth. Personally I agree with Astro, that from a monetary standpoint you are wealthy if you have enough assets to live the lifestyle you choose for the rest of your life without having to worry about money. That means being able to ride out market declines and deal with unexpected expenses such as medical, divorces, etc.
From a non-monetary standpoint I can argue that you are wealthy if you are happy and healthy.
Once upon a time, millionaire meant mansions and yachts. Not so today. One million dollars, conservatively invested at an average return of 6% against an average 4% inflation rate, will deliver $53k/year of inflation adjusted income for 25 years. Add in Social Security and pensions and many can have a comfortable retirement, but hardly mansions and yachts in today’s world.
Among the biggest mistakes people make in retirement planning is not factoring in inflation. At a 4% average inflation rate your nest egg can lose as much as half of its buying power in as little as 18 years.
From a non-monetary standpoint I can argue that you are wealthy if you are happy and healthy.
Once upon a time, millionaire meant mansions and yachts. Not so today. One million dollars, conservatively invested at an average return of 6% against an average 4% inflation rate, will deliver $53k/year of inflation adjusted income for 25 years. Add in Social Security and pensions and many can have a comfortable retirement, but hardly mansions and yachts in today’s world.
Among the biggest mistakes people make in retirement planning is not factoring in inflation. At a 4% average inflation rate your nest egg can lose as much as half of its buying power in as little as 18 years.
IMO, you are doing pretty darn well if you are not walking down the street in the middle of the night with nowhere to go. Bottom line.
That'll teach you a valuable lesson: it is really hard to live that way so unless you like it you'd better do something about it.
Short term gains stories scare me. Any plan under 5 years is chump change, IMO.
I like minimum 20 year plans! As an example, the best stock I have is far older than that...
Contingency, contingency, contingency! Have a backup to your backup.
Don't buy that drop dead gorgeous BMW until you are in "that club". Mainly because cars tend to be depreciating assets...
My goal is to never walk down the street in the middle of the night ever again.
I wish you luck.
“I'm a great believer in luck, and I find the harder I work the more I have of it.” -Thomas Jefferson.
That'll teach you a valuable lesson: it is really hard to live that way so unless you like it you'd better do something about it.
Short term gains stories scare me. Any plan under 5 years is chump change, IMO.
I like minimum 20 year plans! As an example, the best stock I have is far older than that...
Contingency, contingency, contingency! Have a backup to your backup.
Don't buy that drop dead gorgeous BMW until you are in "that club". Mainly because cars tend to be depreciating assets...
My goal is to never walk down the street in the middle of the night ever again.
I wish you luck.
“I'm a great believer in luck, and I find the harder I work the more I have of it.” -Thomas Jefferson.
One of Warren Buffett's greatest quotes ever is, "The stock market is a device which transfers money from the impatient to the patient.”
Start young, invest in no load index funds, and never open your statements. If you want to play with individual stocks, just understand that out of the 20 largest companies in the world 30 years ago, zero of them are on the list today.
Last edited:
If you are rich you have your company pay for the cars. if you are poor you pay for the cars. I just made that up. there are some very wise people posting. I learned a long time ago to pay attention to winners not losers. For example wisdom dictates if you want to learn about what it takes to fly an Airliner ask an Airline pilot , do not ask me.
My niece's dad died and her and her mom bought for her first truck a Toyota Tundra 4x4 and actually a very nice truck and it is reliable. Reality check a girl in the city thinking she is a cow girl doesn't need a full size truck the gets poor mpgs, where a like Tacoma probably should get 40% better mpgs?
You are a man with a profound understanding of the world.
- Joined
- Jul 18, 2020
- Messages
- 231
I'm middle class. Everyone who has more than I do is, however, rich...
Seriously, I think "rich" is relative. I know folks in the top 1% in terms of income and wealth who constantly complain about not having enough money. The flip side is I grew up what would statistically be called "poor", but I didn't certainly feel poor growing up. Honestly, it wasn't until I was in my 20's and started making real money that I even realized we were, but most definitions, "poor".
That said, I'm also cognizant of the fact that relative to most people, we are in a much better financial position. I also realize the element of chance involved in all this, something of which some folks lose sight. Yeah, my wife and I worked hard and lived frugally for many years and all that, but we also had a lot of things break our way.
Honestly, to me "rich" is not having to worry about money, and since I've always lived below my means, even now, I've always felt pretty rich. The only difference is that my means have changed and I have some nicer stuff...
Seriously, I think "rich" is relative. I know folks in the top 1% in terms of income and wealth who constantly complain about not having enough money. The flip side is I grew up what would statistically be called "poor", but I didn't certainly feel poor growing up. Honestly, it wasn't until I was in my 20's and started making real money that I even realized we were, but most definitions, "poor".
That said, I'm also cognizant of the fact that relative to most people, we are in a much better financial position. I also realize the element of chance involved in all this, something of which some folks lose sight. Yeah, my wife and I worked hard and lived frugally for many years and all that, but we also had a lot of things break our way.
- we were born in the US, where there was a lot of opportunity.
- we both had parents who stressed education above all else
- we've gone through our adult lives without any major health problems. In the US in particular, that can ruin some people.
- we were lucky enough to buy our first property in a location that exploded, and we were able to leverage that into other properties that also exploded...
Honestly, to me "rich" is not having to worry about money, and since I've always lived below my means, even now, I've always felt pretty rich. The only difference is that my means have changed and I have some nicer stuff...
I am probably on the lower end of median income and net worth spectrum here on this forum, it seems in life I end up either feeling like the people I am around feel I am doing really well, or doing poorly lol, never similar to them. I never fit in it seems.
Funny story, we were looking a home for sale last fall while considering a move. We had not gotten preapproved, it is not necessarily typical here to get a preapproval before looking at homes. While looking at these homes we were meeting the realtor at the house while driving our 16 year old minivan, the homes we were looking at were not starter homes, nor were they extravagant. I think he was questioning in his mind if we could afford the home we had looked at, he never said it out loud but I picked up on it.
This prompted me to a mortgage preapproval from our bank after that and I told our mortgage guy the price of the house we were considering and we were preapproved with no problem which I knew to be the case. I told him I was wanting to know where we stood so we could consider all of the possibilities when looking at homes, I asked for the maximum amount we would be approved for. This ended up being over twice the amount of money the house we looked at costed, and the mortgage person said we could probably go a bit higher if needed.
I forwarded the preapproval letter to the real estate agent we were working with the obscene number we were preapproved for. He said, well you certainly have a lot of options for potential homes!
The moral of the story is you cant judge someone by their older practical vehicle they drive, and secondly, we are headed for trouble again in this housing market because there is no way we can afford the high end of what we were preapproved for. We could technically afford it, but it wouldn't be pretty. The figure we were approved for was even based on me sandbagging the downpayment which would come from the proceeds from the sale of our current home, I was very conservative on the number I gave him. It was actually surprising and obscene the amount they were willing to lend us.
Its the early 2000's all over again!
Funny story, we were looking a home for sale last fall while considering a move. We had not gotten preapproved, it is not necessarily typical here to get a preapproval before looking at homes. While looking at these homes we were meeting the realtor at the house while driving our 16 year old minivan, the homes we were looking at were not starter homes, nor were they extravagant. I think he was questioning in his mind if we could afford the home we had looked at, he never said it out loud but I picked up on it.
This prompted me to a mortgage preapproval from our bank after that and I told our mortgage guy the price of the house we were considering and we were preapproved with no problem which I knew to be the case. I told him I was wanting to know where we stood so we could consider all of the possibilities when looking at homes, I asked for the maximum amount we would be approved for. This ended up being over twice the amount of money the house we looked at costed, and the mortgage person said we could probably go a bit higher if needed.
I forwarded the preapproval letter to the real estate agent we were working with the obscene number we were preapproved for. He said, well you certainly have a lot of options for potential homes!
The moral of the story is you cant judge someone by their older practical vehicle they drive, and secondly, we are headed for trouble again in this housing market because there is no way we can afford the high end of what we were preapproved for. We could technically afford it, but it wouldn't be pretty. The figure we were approved for was even based on me sandbagging the downpayment which would come from the proceeds from the sale of our current home, I was very conservative on the number I gave him. It was actually surprising and obscene the amount they were willing to lend us.
Its the early 2000's all over again!
I read The Wealthy Barber by David Chilton about 30 years ago - thought it was really good.
Similar threads
