Are there a lot of Rich BITOGers?
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I was 16 ish when I first joined this forum. I just loved loved loved that there was people dedicated to the same things that I was interested in and were willing to share knowledge and how to and give good advice things like that. This by far is my favorite forum to date.
We used the low interest money from the Toyota dealer to buy our 2017 RAV4 in 2016. Sure, I could have pulled out $30k and bought the vehicle. Instead, I left it in there and made about 15-20% per year on the money we didn't take out of the market.
Using that 30k would have cost me about the same in earnings on that money over five years, so paying a 1.9% interest rate made sense.
We could easily afford more than a 2WD XLE RAV4. But we want to put back some for our future, and travel, etc.
Heck, oilBabe could afford the RAV4 on her pay, and I make more and drive a 2012 Mazda3 that was 1/3rd of the cost.
I'm not rich. But I'm not poor either. I grew up poor and don't want to be that in my older years if I have any say in the matter.
62 years old. Invested in the stock market for 35 years, mostly total market Vanguard funds, nothing fancy. Doing OK. Looking at my house and 6 year old Subaru in the driveway, neighbors would be shocked. Time in the market, not market timing is what counts.
It’s interesting to watch how threads and advice evolve...financial threads in particular.
There are, in fact, several members who have portfolios (not just home equity, but liquid investments) in excess of a million dollars. I won’t name them out of respect for their privacy.
I see advice from those members, who have clearly figured out how to get that level of wealth, get drowned out by more numerous posts from others, who haven’t gotten close to that level.
The internet is fascinating at times, and BITOG is no different, when you witness expert, valuable advice drowned out by “chest thumping” from folks who feel compelled to post.
If you were to simply tally the posts, the overwhelming number of posts come from non-experts who feel empowered to express an opinion (nothing wrong with that, of course) and they can obscure the few posts with really good, experienced advice.
For a clear BITOG example in a different discipline, I see @clinebarger , or @Trav, give a great answer to a mechanical question. They get drowned out, or contradicted, from dozens of posts by, well, amateurs, who think their opinion is of equal or greater value on the topic.
There are some great posts, and real experts, on this forum. Part of why I love BITOG.
But it takes critical reading skills to pick those nuggets out of all the sand in a thread…
There are, in fact, several members who have portfolios (not just home equity, but liquid investments) in excess of a million dollars. I won’t name them out of respect for their privacy.
I see advice from those members, who have clearly figured out how to get that level of wealth, get drowned out by more numerous posts from others, who haven’t gotten close to that level.
The internet is fascinating at times, and BITOG is no different, when you witness expert, valuable advice drowned out by “chest thumping” from folks who feel compelled to post.
If you were to simply tally the posts, the overwhelming number of posts come from non-experts who feel empowered to express an opinion (nothing wrong with that, of course) and they can obscure the few posts with really good, experienced advice.
For a clear BITOG example in a different discipline, I see @clinebarger , or @Trav, give a great answer to a mechanical question. They get drowned out, or contradicted, from dozens of posts by, well, amateurs, who think their opinion is of equal or greater value on the topic.
There are some great posts, and real experts, on this forum. Part of why I love BITOG.
But it takes critical reading skills to pick those nuggets out of all the sand in a thread…
Truth in most any forum. Really true in comments to articles and such. Plus people just don't read!
Tell me though and I DON'T want to know the WHO, but HOW do you truly know how much $ liquid assets members have? I suppose they could voluntarily tell or even show you. That is interesting in itself. OR are you going by your judgment? Just curious - seems like others might be interested in your answer.
I am fairly middle, but live OK and support some key charities.
You ask an interesting question, @Pablo
I know in the cases of PMs, or actual conversations, in which details were shared, which is why that information must remain confidential.
Some member’s wealth can be imputed, or guessed at, from their post history.
Some clues exist, though clearly that’s not definitive.
But those members exist, in plural. Absolutely certain of it.
I think it’s interesting that the OP wants to know “how many”. Does he mean how many as a statistical measure, out of curiosity? Does he want to know who they are for specific advice?
A person‘s financial position is deeply personal, and most folks are reticent to divulge deeply personal information.
I know in the cases of PMs, or actual conversations, in which details were shared, which is why that information must remain confidential.
Some member’s wealth can be imputed, or guessed at, from their post history.
Some clues exist, though clearly that’s not definitive.
But those members exist, in plural. Absolutely certain of it.
I think it’s interesting that the OP wants to know “how many”. Does he mean how many as a statistical measure, out of curiosity? Does he want to know who they are for specific advice?
A person‘s financial position is deeply personal, and most folks are reticent to divulge deeply personal information.
+1 (I always wanted to do THAT hahahaha, never do)
I have zero doubt about mean and median income here, being well above national. Exclude the few students, loafers still with parents and I bet - well yeah. Not many eating just rice and beans.
Oh and the million you mentioned..........I hate to write it but well the new kinda standard should be 2X$Meg. I am not actually kidding or trying to be whatever label, but retiring on a million in many places, not so easy to live another 20+ years in comfort.
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Oddly, I seem to want to drive to have a low income year. I will try this year. Nothing from the IRA, not taking SS. Amsoil, small pension, post tax savings, Sick Bike Parts.............gonna be TIGHT. I might be squeaking.
I doubt they will raise their hands so you would likely never know. If they drive a 20 year old vehicle, they probably don't care what others perceive their financial status to be.
@Pablo - completely agree on the specious nature of the term “millionaire”. It used to be an extreme level of wealth.
But since a portfolio of $1 million generates about $40,000/year in returns - which is less than the average household earns - the impact of the term is far smaller than it once was.
Further, if we’re counting home equity, and using a net worth valuation, to define millionaire, then that net worth will not generate nearly as much cash flow (equity gains, sure, but hard to spend those) and the term becomes even more specious.
A person, in say, California, with just a few hundred thousand in retirement savings, and a million in home equity, isn’t going to have much of a standard of living in retirement on that modest portfolio. That hypothetical person, while technically a millionaire, is not wealthy at all. Best case, they’re getting $10,000/year from their modest portfolio while having high expenses that eat up what little social security and that portfolio income provide.
A dramatic contrast with a person, who, for sake of discussion, has a the same net worth, but it’s all liquid, and it throws off $60,000/year plus their social security, a net amount which goes a very long way, and is a nice living, in a less expensive area.
I consider the word “wealthy” to mean that you can live your lifestyle (however you’ve defined it, in terms of location, spending, activities, etc.) without worry about running out of money. Defining the elements and financial needs of that lifestyle is a critical part of success in planning.
Without context, words like “millionaire” or “wealthy” are meaningless.
But since a portfolio of $1 million generates about $40,000/year in returns - which is less than the average household earns - the impact of the term is far smaller than it once was.
Further, if we’re counting home equity, and using a net worth valuation, to define millionaire, then that net worth will not generate nearly as much cash flow (equity gains, sure, but hard to spend those) and the term becomes even more specious.
A person, in say, California, with just a few hundred thousand in retirement savings, and a million in home equity, isn’t going to have much of a standard of living in retirement on that modest portfolio. That hypothetical person, while technically a millionaire, is not wealthy at all. Best case, they’re getting $10,000/year from their modest portfolio while having high expenses that eat up what little social security and that portfolio income provide.
A dramatic contrast with a person, who, for sake of discussion, has a the same net worth, but it’s all liquid, and it throws off $60,000/year plus their social security, a net amount which goes a very long way, and is a nice living, in a less expensive area.
I consider the word “wealthy” to mean that you can live your lifestyle (however you’ve defined it, in terms of location, spending, activities, etc.) without worry about running out of money. Defining the elements and financial needs of that lifestyle is a critical part of success in planning.
Without context, words like “millionaire” or “wealthy” are meaningless.
We are kind of doing the same. We could pay our current house off but already know it’s not our forever home. Easier to buy the land we’re wanting with liquid assets than by waiting on the sale of a house. Our mortgage interest rate is low and we have plenty of equity in the home already so we are continuing to make the payments.
I’m not trying to be a naysayer to any of the real experts Astro14 has pointed out. Just describing what’s going on in my situation. Not everyone has the same goals nor is interested in the same investments. My grandfather never invested in anything but land his entire life, I don’t know if the man even knows what a 401k is. He did however know timber management, how to judge its value and how to make it pay for the land he purchased.
You should probably just start a sub forum where the mechanical and financial elites can communicate without interference from us common folk. Like BITOG platinum or something. Proof of owning a Toyota with manual transmission and hand crank windows and stock options in excess of 1 million required to join.
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4WD
$50 site donor 2025
Sure, I read - mine knowledge - but generally avoid comments on investments …
A millionaire in 1970 is equal to someone having 7 million in 2022 dollars.
We need a new word for the 1970 millionaire thinking to equal a status of a wealthy 2022 person of ten million to keep up with the times.
and ok if you want a midterm target of 5 million but millionaire with 1 million doesnt cut it for many areas anymore.
We need a new word for the 1970 millionaire thinking to equal a status of a wealthy 2022 person of ten million to keep up with the times.
and ok if you want a midterm target of 5 million but millionaire with 1 million doesnt cut it for many areas anymore.
The kind of stock market fluctuations we are seeing lately and the effects of runaway inflation are making being a millionaire or multi-millionaire somewhat of a moving target too.
One day you are, the next you aren't. Repeat.
One day you are, the next you aren't. Repeat.
Did you think I was talking about you, personally?
I think I like BITOG as is.
Thanks for the suggestion, though.
Read “ The Millionaire next Door” . It will surprise some folks. Leasing a BMW is not a sign of being rich.
I don’t think you were singling out any one person. Just for some reason you’re suggesting that posters should not post on a discussion forum.
This goes right along with locking old threads. I am here to discuss, hear new ideas, new opinions. If someone wants to explain to me why I should invest in nothing but Crayons due to a coming shortage I’m all ears. Not going to do it but I’ll sure listen to them. Maybe in six months I say “wow, that crazy **** was right! Crayons went up in price like 800%!” I already remember thinking how crazy people were for investing in fake online currency.
Are there any further books we should be reading beyond this one?
I’m going to read that book now since it’s been suggested multiple times in this thread. I would also recommend Financial Peace University by Dave Ramsey and a book on minimalism by either Joshua Becker or Ryan Fields Milburn and Ryan Nicodemus.
You don’t have to prescribe to the lifestyles or budgeting in these books BUT you may find something in them to add to or take away from your current processes that is helpful.
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