Are all oils the same??

[edwardh1]

people keep referring to group I, II, and III oils.
How do you know what common oils are in what group?
And what group is a good choice?
like havoline
or Supertech?
does it say on the bottle?

 

[badnews]

Ken2

quote:

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Sometimes mistakes happen or shortcuts get taken, or just sloppy procedures where the middle of a production run passes and the beginning and end wouldn't if tested...

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As if the same would / could not happen to a major brand, food which is tightly controled has mistakes in the process and has to be recalled, all companies are able to make these mistakes. Not a factor.

 

[badnews]

quote:

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Originally posted by Pablo:
Bror - well said - as long as they all barely pass API SA/SB

we can sleep at night.

(And I didn't know what "hupola" meant!)

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hoopla - It means to make a big production out of something very ordinary.

 

[badnews]

quote:

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Originally posted by buster:
Are all oils the same? I'm beginning to think it really doesn't matter what oil you run in your car. Some are slightly better then others and for longer drains syn lubes are better but when you look at all the UOA's posted on this site, I see no definitive answer.

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And this about says it all I rest my case.

 

[badnews]

quote:

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Originally posted by edwardh1:
people keep referring to group I, II, and III oils.
How do you know what common oils are in what group?
And what group is a good choice?
like havoline
or Supertech?
does it say on the bottle?

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How many more will try to side track this topic, because they fear(know) I am correct ??????????????

 

[Patman]

quote:

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Originally posted by badnews:

quote:

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Originally posted by edwardh1:
people keep referring to group I, II, and III oils.
How do you know what common oils are in what group?
And what group is a good choice?
like havoline
or Supertech?
does it say on the bottle?

---

How many more will try to side track this topic, because they fear(know) I am correct ??????????????

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There is a big difference between just barely meeting the API standard, and greatly exceeding it though. Like others have mentioned, try running a cheap 88 cent oil in a turbo engine for 10,000 miles and show me the oil analysis results. I bet it would be scary! Run that same interval with a high quality oil like Amsoil, Schaeffer Oil, German Castrol or Redline, and the results would be vastly different. That my friend is a guarantee.

[ August 10, 2003, 10:16 AM: Message edited by: Patman ]

 

[JohnBrowning]

Oil makes a huge difference. If you honestly think that Walmart brand 5W30 is going to protect your engine from wear just as well as Redline 5W30 or Amsoil 5W30 then why even visit this site?
Why and the heck would we even have synthetic fluids??? NASA, DOD, Aerospace companys could save a fortune just running Walmart brand lubricant products!

Saying all oils are the same is like saying cube steak is just as good New York Strip!!

THe fact that we have alot of different spec.'s for oil and Walmart only meets the easy common API rateings should say alot. I do not think they make an oil that meets BMW,VW or DiamlerBenz extended drain requirments!

The few UOA of Walmarts oil have not been impressive at all. The oil would barley make it to 3000 miles wich is no where near the recomended OCI for my vechiles!

When you compare UOA from Walmarts house brand oil at $.84 to say Chevron Supreme at $1.05 you see a large improvment in the oils ability to protect the engine. When you compare it to M1 you see another huge jump. This is especial apparent if you change at 5000 or 7500 miles wich is typical recomendation from most auto manufactures.

The fact that 5W30 Tech 2000 oil sheared just like other name brand 5W30 oils tell us that 5W30 dino oil should not be used in anything.

I belive that the UOA showed almopst total TBN depletion and high insolubles.

 

[badnews]

quote:

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Saying all oils are the same is like saying cube steak is just as good New York Strip!!

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They are if you take the meaning scientificly --- ie: both cube steak and New York Strip steak will provide after conversion in the body energy for you to function, and oil walmart brand or mobil 1 will lube the engine and allow it to function. Vehicles have no taste buds. As for the UOA at some point in time , the word overkill comes to mind.

[ August 10, 2003, 10:40 AM: Message edited by: badnews ]

 

[edwardh1]

what is the answer to the Consumer Reports taxi test about 4 years ago in which they said all API cert oils are acceptable?

 

[Patman]

quote:

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Originally posted by edwardh1:
what is the answer to the Consumer Reports taxi test about 4 years ago in which they said all API cert oils are acceptable?

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If you own a taxi perhaps, but the average motorist doesn't have his engine running for practically 24 hours a day either.

If all API oils were acceptable, our engines would almost never wear out.

 

[csandste]

I don't for a minute think that Wal-Mart's dino is as good as the typical synthetic. However, I do think it's as good as many brand oils. I use a 10W30, but unfortunately there's no VOA on that particular oil. It does seem to compare very well with Valvoline, however. I'm sure none of the base stocks are as good as Royal Purple, but most of the additive numbers don't look to be that far off. Maybe the additive quality isn't as good, but I thought a handful of companies controlled all additive production.

You could argue that Wal-Mart's fast to change oils from one production facility to another, but the same might hold true for brand names as well. Blackstone's web site states that there are no great differences in name and private brand oils and they must have seen a lot of samples.

Wal-Mart 5W30

ppm
copper 0
iron 0
chromium 0
lead 0
sodium 0
boron 0
Aluminum 1
Molybendum 55
Phospherous 1122
Zinc 1090
Magnesium 4
Calcium 1934
Viscosity cst 10.50
sae/iso 30w

Valvoline 5w30

Aluminum 1
Chromium 0
Iron 1
Copper 0
Lead 0
Tin 0
Moly 0
Nickel 0
Manganese 0
Silver 0
Titanium 0
Potasium 2
Boron 1
Silicon 3
Sodium 1
Calcium 2249
Magnesium 5
Phosphorous 791
Zinc 952
Barium 0
Vis @ 100 C (converted) 10.5 cSt
Flashpoint 430
FTBN 8.3
(remember - new method)

Royal Purple 5W30
Copper 0
Iron 0
Chromium 0
Lead 0
Aluminum 1
Silicon 2
Tin 0
Moly 112
Sodium 0
Magnesium 11
Zinc 867
Potassium 0
Phosphorus 786
Calcium 1670
TBN 8
Viscosity 11.4

[ August 10, 2003, 03:41 PM: Message edited by: csandste ]

 

[badnews]

quote:

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If all API oils were acceptable, our engines would almost never wear out.

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Well I have been in contact with the local Sheriff's department that runs about 20 cars, each car is issued to a officer and he is responcible for the maint. of said vehicle. They use what ever is cheap at the time, Penzoil, Valvoline, whatever, it is all dino oil. They have some vehicles with 275,000 miles on them, then they are rotated out, do to , well just being beat to **** , the engines have not worn out other componets have, shocks, ball joints, body rust, steering wheels wobble, they are just plain tired, but at a local salvage yard that buys them, they have tested the engines and the engine compression was fine, so yes the engines do not wear out, no matter what oils are used. I have seen this, so know it to be true.

 

[userfriendly]

Badnews;
This forum has been waiting for a guy like you to show up and spoil the Tupperware (TM) party.

 

[badnews]

quote:

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Oil makes a huge difference. If you honestly think that Walmart brand 5W30 is going to protect your engine from wear just as well as Redline 5W30 or Amsoil 5W30 then why even visit this site?

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Because there are some special circumstances I wished to learn about, for instance ------- I would not argue the fact that Mobil 1 Syn. would be better for a car started in a very cold environment, or that there are some high tech engines that need special treatment and that some oil filters are better than others. But the fact remains that for 90 percent of most situations, oil is oil when it is API rated.

 

[userfriendly]

Badnews;
Then in your opinion it is safe in 90% or more of the applications, to hide behind API or engine manufactures' lubrication certifications and follow their service interval recomendations and ignore advertising and unsupported hoopla?

 

[GROUCHO MARX]

The good news is that no one here is twisting anyone's arm to spend more on motor oil.

 

[badnews]

quote:

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Originally posted by userfriendly:
Badnews;
Then in your opinion it is safe in 90% or more of the applications, to hide behind API or engine manufactures' lubrication certifications and follow their service interval recomendations and ignore advertising and unsupported hoopla?

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yes, although I would not term it hiding, I would prefer to call it ---- trusting API certifications, and adhering to recomended service intervals and fluid recomendations, if a vehicle calls for 10-30w for summer use, 5-30w for winter use, use what the vehicle designers felt was best for the vehicle in question. Because in the end it is just oil, not a magic elixer.

 

[Terry]

Yes most API certified SL OTC non group 4 or higher oils are the same now.

One thing about the lubricants industry is that things change. 4 years ago I would have vehemently disgreed that MOST OTC motor oils are so similar to not warrant being discerning.

Having said that and putting on the NOMEX suit..... There are a few standouts in certain applications that work better than others.

Problem is everytime I find one and share it with my analysis customers they change the formula 6 months later.

One thing I am noting is that any oil when used with LC stabilizes and shows better wear and oil degradation values. Of course a prep cleaning with Auto-RX helps too.

When you get into specialty oils like Bobs Schaeffers and other synthetics the quality does go up but I think the advent of the Hydrocracked bases narrowed the gap so much that cost benefit must be looked at closely. Desired drain interval is a critical key also cause I can get you low wear from a cheaper petroleum oil but you may sacrifice by gooping up the crankcase ventilation
system and build up on the rings, valve guides, etc over time insidiously.

The best bang for the buck may be a well built SL
oil preclean with RX, use LC and (FP or nuetra on fuel side) change oil as analysis dictates and your needs but take it as far as it can go.

I do see Schaeffers go 10,000 miles
with LC now controlling oxidation and vis stability. For pennies.

With Bobs results with the micron moly I wonder if LC would extend its life enough to go the same drain or longer.

Prepare for the new API spec about to be unveiled. The reformulation variations we see on many oils are preperatory for that event.

 

[YZF150]

Terry, you've identified Shaeffers as an apparent exception, on the "better" side, to your assertion that most API SL oils are the same.

Would you please expand upon this with your opinion of other "better" oils, and the "not as good" oils, as well, please?

 

[Terry]

Nope not online.

I already get banged here for mentioning Auto-RX, LC, Schaeffers, Redline, etc, as if I sell them.


I'd be happy to privately ID what would work in your vehicles based on your feedback and analysis results as always !