ive heard rumors that the same company that makes Wal-Mart oil also makes a brand name oil like moblie, texaco, penzoil, one of those companies. i heard they just call it wal-mart brand so they can sell it at a lower price. any one else heard this? and also wouldnt wal-mart oil have to pass the same test as say mobile1, or valvoline? i asking all this becasue i was changing oil and noticed that wal-mart had a full syn. high miles formula that was like 7.00 for 5 qts. i know they say you set what you get what you pay for but why pay 20 for 5qts of mobile 1 when you can get another syn with the same rating and standards for like 10 bucks less? would like to know what you guys think. thanks
Are all oils the same??
- Thread starter botlfed88
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I don't know where WalMart gets their oil, but is it reasonable to assume they buy bulk cheap (last year's non-seller?)? Maybe they buy from different sources and just stir it all together? ![[Big Grin]](images/icons/grin.gif)
Patman
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Walmart's oil is made by a subsidiary of Quaker State, although it's made to different specs.
botlfed88,
Somebody has to make Wal*Mart's oil (and their other house brand products). Wal*Mart doesn't make anything except money.
In all cases, figure that Wal*Mart brand products are the lowest of low bids and just adequate quality to keep folks streaming through their doors looking for bargains.
All oils are not the same. The oil specifications are a floor. Oils can pass the test (or maybe the average sample of a given brand passes, some samples don't, and some score better), but other oils can be better if the oil maker choses.
Ken
[ July 22, 2003, 07:59 PM: Message edited by: Ken2 ]
csandste, thank you for a very informative response on this thread. (as ususal!) However, I'd love to know where I could get any verifiable Group-III based motor oil for $1.40/qt. I've never seen ST "fully synthetic" for less than $3.01/qt. in my area. And never in the five quart jugs. $1.40/qt sounds more like ST's "synthetic blend" - presumably some proportion of Group-III added to a Group-II base stock.
I submitted a Blackstone UOA for 5W-30 ST convnetional oil to this forum for discussion. There were quite a few comments about how badly it had sheared back over 2,600 miles. However, when I perused UOAs of other conventional 5W-30 oils, they all showed significant shearing in viscosity over 2,500-3,000 miles if changed out that frequently. I'm not saying that ST conventional oils are the equal of all other conventional oils. But, they're definitely better than some would have you believe.
Walmart oil meets the standard spec. I still am not too aware if an oil exceeds specs will yield some great results. Walmart oil is very inexpensive due to their buying power and the fact that it requires no advertising which adds into the price of oil. It may just be a loss leader or break even in the hopes you purchase a profitable item at their store.
Personally I use it as add oil for my car when I hit around 3000 miles, it needs about 1/2 to 3/4 quart. I usually replace my oil (dino) 4000-5000 miles so it has a short life in my car. btw a Civic now with 200k miles all on dino which Honda recommends (5W30).
quote:Equilon is history. Shell's current venture is called Motiva and Shell's partner is Saudi Refining. Ken
Originally posted by csandste: .... Shell is closing the Shreveport blending plant and will probably shift production to excess Equilon capacity. ....
quote:Don't make assumptions. The oil is made from a package of ingredients where the package has passed the spec if they were blended according to instructions. Sometimes mistakes happen or shortcuts get taken, or just sloppy procedures where the middle of a production run passes and the beginning and end wouldn't if tested...which maybe they aren't if cost is a major concern, and it is with a Wal*Mart contract. Ken [ July 23, 2003, 02:05 PM: Message edited by: Ken2 ]
Originally posted by harper: Walmart oil meets the standard spec. ....
quote:Dutch Royal Shell bought Penn QS? when was this? Heck it aint even an american held company (the full name kinda gives away where it exists) also, Penn/QS was a merger, not a buyout....I think they still trade on the NYSE
Originally posted by csandste: Wal-Mart oil in the U.S. is currently made in a Shreveport blending plant that used to be a separate company. It was bought by QS, which was bought by Pennzoil, which was bought by Shell.
QD,
Extra!!! Extra!!!! Read all about it!!!
quote:
Shell buys Pennzoil-Quaker State Shell agrees to pay $1.8B cash for nation's leading motor oil company. March 26, 2002: 9:08 AM EST NEW YORK (CNN/Money) - Shell Oil Co. agreed to acquire motor oil maker Pennzoil-Quaker State Co. Monday for about $1.8 billion in cash. Shell, a member of the Royal Dutch/Shell group, said it will pay $22 a share for Pennzoil (PZL: Research, Estimates), which makes the nation's No. 1 and No. 2 brands of motor oil. That represents a premium of about 42 percent over Pennzoil's closing price of $15.49 Friday. Shell also will assume Pennzoil-Quaker State's outstanding debt. A Shell spokeswoman said the company expects layoffs of about 15 percent of the combined workforce of Shell Lubricants and Pennzoil. Pennzoil has about 5,150 employees. The transaction is expected to be completed in the second half of 2002 and add to Shell's earnings in the first full year after completion. In addition to Pennzoil and Quaker State motor oils, which Shell says ultimately will replace the company's use of competitor ChevronTexaco Group's (CVX: Research, Estimates) Havoline, Shell is acquiring more than 2,000 Jiffy Lube stores. "The combination of Shell and Pennzoil-Quaker State Co., the largest independent lubricants company in the world, will make Shell a leader in the U.S. and global lubricants market," Royal Dutch/Shell Managing Director Paul Skinner said. "It also strengthens our U.S. oil products business."
"Sometimes mistakes happen or shortcuts get taken, or just sloppy procedures where the middle of a production run passes and the beginning and end wouldn't if tested...which maybe they aren't if cost is a major concern, and it is with a Wal*Mart contract."
Although I use this oil and have no quality issues with Wal-Mart, I have worried a bit about telling someone they're going to be out of a job in nine months and then expecting them to perform at top capacity til their head's lopped off. Maybe the disgruntled waiter's been pissing in the coffee.
quote:Ya I read up on this after I posted. I know how it got past me - Penn-QS is a sore spot up here, 3 oil companies invented the industry here and moved only taking middle and up mgmt, left everyone high and dry. The brand is still big, but u go downtown OC now - its ugly! and I dont mean from the tornado!
Originally posted by pscholte: QD, Extra!!! Extra!!!! Read all about it!!!
If you search this site under Wal-Mart or SuperTech you will get a number of discussions.
Wal-Mart oil in the U.S. is currently made in a Shreveport blending plant that used to be a separate company. It was bought by QS, which was bought by Pennzoil, which was bought by Shell. Warren Performance Products also might have contracts, either for blending or more likely for packaging. Shell is closing the Shreveport blending plant and will probably shift production to excess Equilon capacity. Thus Wal-Mart might become like the old Havoline.
Canadian Wal-Mart (Tech 2000) may be SafetyKleen (who probably just packages), or PetroCanada. Some production may have been moved to China.
Wal-Mart controls all product testing, so unlike many private brands (i.e. Advance Auto) it's kind of difficult to tell exact sources.
Similar things happen in tires. In addition to their house brand (Douglas) which is made by Kelly (Goodyear), they control tread designs of name brand tires. Thus if you find a BFG Excentia (unless it's from Europe), you're looking at a tire only available from Wal-Mart. It's priced against the BFG Radial TA but is an entirely different tire. There were earlier posts here and on Edmunds that indicated that some ranges of Delco filters were entirely different at Wal-Mart as compared to K-Mart. Some Delco filters (for non-GM cars) are outsourced to Champion and other suppliers-- thus a Delco (no longer carried by Wal-Mart I believe) used to be identical to a SuperTech.
Although I have no proof, I've wondered whether Wal-Mart's tremendous buying capacity might result in custom name brand oils much like tires and filters. The Consumer Report study of motor oils in the mid 90's mentioned the great variation of Shell products from one part of the country to the other. Oil production is a lot more manufacturing centric than gasoline which is a commodity item branded by various retailers depending on the pipeline, but the sources of oil might be less pristine than some on this board think.
Although I doubt if SuperTech oils are top tier neither do I think they're just barely adequate. I don't necessarily think the present oil will get better if it becomes mainline Shell than the present brew. Of the four major sellers, SuperTech is behind Pennzoil IMHO, but might be the equal of QS, Valvoline or Castrol. As far as I know there have been no analyses of SuperTech synthetic oils on these boards although a UOA of Tech 2000 synthetic held up very well for a group III oil.
Seven bucks for five quarts of any group III would be a very good price.
[ July 23, 2003, 12:32 PM: Message edited by: csandste ]
Are all oils the same? I'm beginning to think it really doesn't matter what oil you run in your car. Some are slightly better then others and for longer drains syn lubes are better but when you look at all the UOA's posted on this site, I see no definitive answer.
I've said it before, I've owned close to thirty vehicles-- run a lot of them into the ground for approximately 150,000 miles and it was seldom if ever engine problems that made me give up on a car. In the seventies I used Sears Spectrum, in the last few years I've gone to Wal-Mart's house brand because it's bottled and the Wal-Mart boobs don't spend time ripping your battery out of your car like Jiffy Lube. Wal-Mart may be constantly rejiggering contracts, however, so purists would probably be offended. I note that their 5W30 seems to have a lot more moly in it than their 10w30.
Since we're still up in the air as to whether their American stuff is the Shell subsidiary, Shell itself, or Warren or their Canadian is PetroCanada, SafetyKleen or a Chinese oil the vagueries might offend oil-philes.
[ July 24, 2003, 05:10 PM: Message edited by: csandste ]
Funny thread - are ALL oils the same?
Like I'm dropping cheesy store brand dino in my turbo and driving 10K. I think not.
[i/]"If they meet the "API" standard - they are the same you pay extra for packageing, advertisement, and legally worded hype ."[/i]
No, there are many different possible routes to the same destination ... and I don't agree that the "destination" is really the same. Some oils pass the API tests by a slim margin while others beat them by considerably more. That's part of what this site is all about. If you don't know that, you need to spend more time reading what's aleady been written here and less time posting uninformed opinion.
" They are all the same, the rest is all hupola."
That's spelled H-O-O-P-L-A. ![[Duh!]](/forums/graemlins/pat.gif)
--- Bror Jace
--- Bror Jace
Bror - well said - as long as they all barely pass API SA/SB we can sleep at night.
(And I didn't know what "hupola" meant!)
we can sleep at night.
(And I didn't know what "hupola" meant!)quote:Well you could you know. Nothing bad would happen, I have a favorite brand also, but the fact is they all work, and nothing bad would happen if you did. I read a lot here, good info, it does not alter the facts I think.
Originally posted by Pablo: Funny thread - are ALL oils the same? Like I'm dropping cheesy store brand dino in my turbo and driving 10K. I think not.
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