Anyone switch from conventional to synthetic?

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Originally Posted By: JR
last geo had a complete rebuild with performance cam and milled head.



I have a soft spot for metros (high school girlfriend), but that is one phrase that I never thought I'd see typed out!
 
Like many newer cars, our '13 Outback only uses synthetic (0w-20), 7500 mi OCI during warranty. '07 Accord switched to synthetic @ 3K miles, followed Honda maintenance minder (6-7K) for warranty period, now annual (13-15K) OCI with M1 EP (5w-20). Newer Honda maintenance minders are calibrated for synthetic.'13 Fiesta still using MC Semi-sync, will change to full synthetic @ 10K with 10K OCI (0w-20).
 
Originally Posted By: Tomcat_80
Well, what Dnewton3 does is what some folks I know should do in all fairness and honesty. After readiing his advice and learning from him; I may just do what he is doing. Whether I use QSGB or ST oil. I see ST Syn oil has a nice dose of BORON, but havent saw a recent VOA of the 5w20 or 5w30 to know if conventioinal has that same shot of boron.



+1

Agreed...he has the balls to do something different to prove a point, and I highly respect that. It's also had me thinking (along with others) to step down to a dino/blend..


In some of our newer cars with DI and turbo'd, I can see the need for synthetics. In my 5+ year old Ecotecs (which are easy on oil) it seems kinda pointless...
 
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Yeah, why pay any attention to a guy who's made an avocation of studying masses of UOAs, applying statistiscal analysis to them and then putting into practice what he's learned, while proving his hypothesis?
We should go by our guts instead.


Without seeing the inside the inside of the motor, its just as likely he only proved that particular motor can withstand some abuse and neglect. The manufacturers and oil companies don't rely on UOA's and statistical analysis do they?
 
Originally Posted By: SlipperyPete
The manufacturers and oil companies don't rely on UOA's and statistical analysis do they?

Actually, they do. Papers referenced by Dave in his paper used UOAs. And automakers and oil companies use statistical analysis everyday. Offering a warranty of any kind without a statistical analysis is extremely silly, and can be outright dangerous to a company's health.
 
Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: SlipperyPete
The manufacturers and oil companies don't rely on UOA's and statistical analysis do they?

Actually, they do. Papers referenced by Dave in his paper used UOAs. And automakers and oil companies use statistical analysis everyday. Offering a warranty of any kind without a statistical analysis is extremely silly, and can be outright dangerous to a company's health.


Without tearing down motors to actually look at wear? Which, as you know, was the point of the post.
 
Originally Posted By: tig1
I switched to M1 36 years ago and haven't looked back.


In a couple more years you'll be able to determine if you like it.
 
Originally Posted By: SlipperyPete
Without tearing down motors to actually look at wear? Which, as you know, was the point of the post.

There is no question that they do tear downs as well. But they certainly do rely on UOAs. The use of statistical analysis goes without saying.
 
Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: SlipperyPete
Without tearing down motors to actually look at wear? Which, as you know, was the point of the post.

There is no question that they do tear downs as well. But they certainly do rely on UOAs. The use of statistical analysis goes without saying.


I suppose I should have said rely "solely" on UOA's. I didn't think it necessary to construct an internet post along the lines of a supreme court ruling in case someone came along to quote half of it and take it completely out of context.
 
No one was taking anything out of context. Engineers don't do things like this solely in one way. UOAs give them very limited information about wear. Tear downs don't tell them a lot about how the lubricant is holding up.
 
Originally Posted By: Garak
No one was taking anything out of context. Engineers don't do things like this solely in one way. UOAs give them very limited information about wear. Tear downs don't tell them a lot about how the lubricant is holding up.


Look, no one said a word about warranties until you brought it up. Oil company engineers and manufacturers do not rely solely on UOA's when determining OCI's as Dave Newton did. He didn't even post the comments made by the people who did the analysis, much less check what was happening inside the engine. Now, after three of these very long OCI's, he's looking to unload the vehicle rather than see how long these OCI's are sustainable. Based on the info at hand, it is equally likely he only proved that motor can withstand 35K miles of neglect and abuse.
 
I brought up warranties because that's one of the primary concerns of automakers and oil companies. Automakers have to foot the bill if customers are following the maintenance rules and things sludge or blow up. Oil companies have to foot the bill if their oils aren't up to claimed certifications. Automakers do not tend to set up OCIs to save their consumers a bunch of money. Granted, some factory OCIs have been optimistic. But, the OEMs usually have a very good idea how long oil can last in an engine when they introduce it into the market. And, if they're mistaken, they want that corrected in a hurry.

Dave Newton decidedly does NOT need Blackstone's comments to determine whether or not lubricant numbers fall within norms for an engine family. And, when extending OCIs, UOAs are the primary tool, since that's what they're for. Assuming contaminants aren't above certain condemnation levels, fuel dilution is under control, viscosity is within norms, and reserve alkalinity remains, the lubricant is suitable for continued use.

I was running taxis on conventional at double the OEM's recommended OCI for many years. Every one of them went hundreds of thousands of miles. Other posters here run fleets. Others also run fleets and do tear downs and UOAs and extend OCIs to extreme levels, and they put their money where their mouths are.
 
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