Anyone here dislike Bush?

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I am happy to see Kerry and Edwards moving up, even if I disagree with them. Dean is a phony. The more I see, the more I think his anger is a put on to attract votes. He says he will put on religion in the South to get votes there. Clark is the moral equal of his friends, the Clintons. His presidency would be back to "What do you want, and what do you have to give me for it?".

Intelligence is a big problem. (And languages.) It is highly possible that the best info George had was that Saddam had WMD. It is also possible that he did until just before the invasion.

No, I am not happy with all Bush's spending.
 
I am happy to see Kerry and Edwards move just like you labman. Dean would be a disaster for the Democratic Party. I will probably vote for Bush, but a stronger Democratic candidate will keep the Republicans honest. We don't want for any one political party to get too strong.
 
Mystic....I enjoy your posts. You seem to be a voice of reason.
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Mikep
 
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hell, let's ban interracial marriage while we're at it

Whoever wrote this, I think was trying some 60's paranoid fear mongering. Marriage = man and a woman. Male and female. Does not have anything to do with the the color of skin, ethnic background, etc. My kids are the product such a marriage. It does not have anything to do with the government per se, but like it or not most states require a marriage license.

Sorry but a homosexual relationship can be love and all sorts of things in the eyes of the beholders, but there is no, will be no "marriage". And before you get all hate like, and flame me as some kind of redneck, I have zero against homosexuals. I am not a "homophobe", I have no fear of homosexuals.

Sorry but that dog don't hunt, just because the majority of people are against gay marriage, it's not some next step to Nazism, any more than 1-2% of the population being gay is the next step to he!!.
 
I think it's amazing how "hot" people get about the thought of gay marriage.

I agree that if the vast majority of the taxpaying population are against giving benefits to gay couples, then they shouldn't get them. It's the taxpayers' money so they have a right to decide the issue through their elected representation.

But "protecting the family unit"? How is the family unit threatened by people who want to make a lifelong commitment to each other just because they are the same gender? Are people afraid that by granting legal legitimacy to gay marriages that suddenly all our kids will see it and say "I want some of that" and create their own "alternative family"?

I think that bigger threats to families are: Alcohol/drugs, the senseless materialism and greed that creates consumer debt while people are cold and hungry, the crap that is on television etc. By most people's "protection of the family unit" logic it's better to have alcholic verbally abusive parents with $35K in credit card debt who spend no time with their kids (or smack them around now and again) and don't do a **** thing for others than it is to have a loving, responsible gay family unit. My evidence for this statement is that I hear "conservative" family unit types consistently railing against homosexuals on TV etc, but you rarely hear them talking about the other things that are rotting out our society.

They take advantage of most people's completely natural aversion to homosexuality (I mean it IS gross if you are straight, right?) to get the bandwagon rolling and contribute to their own power over their congregations.

By the same token, these same conservative types use the Judeo/Christian value set as their justification for their stance against gay marriage. I guess that's an issue for the courts to decide, but I thought that USA was built on personal freedom as long as your not hurting somebody else. Our motto is "In God we Trust" - whomever your God happens to be. Unfortunately I think most people's God is money and their own pride...and that's why we have the problems that we do.

I'm no supporter of terrorism (my relative was killed on 9/11), but if people on the other side of the world are spun up enough to want to suicide bomb us, maybe we should take a look in the mirror before we "cast the first stone" (or cruise missle as the case may be).

[ January 22, 2004, 09:18 AM: Message edited by: Matt89 ]
 
Actually, now that I think about it, the biggest threats to the American family at this point are the idiots who speed through parking lots and residential areas (45 mph in a 25 mph zone)! Where are all the people coming out to oppose this
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Sorry to hijack this thread. "We will continue with your regularly scheduled broadcast..."

[ January 22, 2004, 09:27 AM: Message edited by: Matt89 ]
 
pablo:

in a few states, interracial marriage was banned well into the 1960's.

my argument is that if two people want to live together and have certain recognized benefits, i'm all for it. i think that the commitment is important and should be rewarded.

the "sanctity of marriage" is mostly a myth, with 50% of american marriages ending in divorce. should these people be punished? i fail to see how recognizing gay marriage is a detriment. if getting married is the solution to all of these social problems (which the right says all the time), then shouldn't it be encouraged?

i suppose if you believe that marriage is "designed" for reproduction and child rearing then that is different. my wife and i have been married for 12 years and we have no plans to breed. if marriage is simply a vessel for reproduction, then i guess we're out of the loop.

i believe it's simply making a commitment to another person; one that i take very seriously. getting married is the best thing i ever did, and i wouldn't want anyone else to be restricted from it.
 
Tweeker;

Didn't you know, any intercourse not for the specific intention of creating children is wrong!

Get with it, man, before someone drafts an amendment
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quote:

Originally posted by Matt89:
Tweeker;

Didn't you know, any intercourse not for the specific intention of creating children is wrong!

Get with it, man, before someone drafts an amendment
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this could quickly degenerate into a non-family oriented conversation.
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i grew up in indiana, went to purdue (go boilers!)

where do you live?

[ January 22, 2004, 11:03 AM: Message edited by: tweeker43 ]
 
Actually, I should update my profile - no longer in Indiana, but I was down in Bloomington for awhile. I guess that makes us mortal football enemies...but the way the IU gridiron has been doing it's kind of a "non-issue"!

I should include a disclaimer for my posts in this thread: I have no problem with what anybody believes...the religious conservatives that I've been speaking of have every right to their beliefs (God Bless America). I only have a problem when people try to use their religious beliefs as a justification for enacting public policy. We're fighting wars overseas right now to clean up the results of other people doing that.

Likewise I get fired up when people crusade against stuff that is on the periphery of our real problems. In my opinion of course.

[ January 22, 2004, 12:03 PM: Message edited by: Matt89 ]
 
well matt, at least you said "down in bloomington"
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i got over that iu-purdue hatred awhile ago. i still relish a good hoosier thumping when we dish one out, but i don't lose sleep when we lose.

back on the original topic:

yes. yes i do.
 
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Originally posted by GROUCHO MARX:
Our intelligence is so great, that the CIA found out about the fall of the Berlin wall moments before it happened!

Great point GROUCHO MARX. Too bad it was missed by everyone else on this discussion. When will the people learn that it is not Reps. vs. Dems. but a Soverign nation loosing it's soverignty to the UN, et.al..... and loosing our Constitutional RIGHTS (unalienable) in the name of fighting terrorism. What exactly is terrorism? If people THINK they know the definition, I urge them to check out the definition in the original Patriot Act I. (a hint: A terrorist is ANYONE (even Rush Limbaugh) who commits ANY crime which COULD endanger the life of ANYONE.) example: speeding, speaking out and "inciting a riot", hunting, ....anything any LEO wants to say you were doing. And I Guarantee NO ONE want's to spend years in Guantanimo Bay, Cuba for the rest of their lives (how ever short that may be...).

Tim
Formally a Bush supporter...
 
quote:

Originally posted by Matt89:
I think it's amazing how "hot" people get about the thought of gay marriage.


Wheww!! I'm glad I'm as ugly as Reverend Sharpton!
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We need the CIA of the 50s.....assasinations.....espionage....covert ops.....U-2/SR-71.....yeah baby!!
 
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This country does not seem to produce Lincoln's anymore.

They are here, there is just no way they would ever make it to the highest office. Heck, they are VERY lucky if they can make it to any eal office.
 
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Wheww!! I'm glad I'm as ugly as Reverend Sharpton!

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You know, I've never cared for him much, but I hear he's developed a little bit of a sense of humor (appearing on SNL).

I remember how hard I laughed when Jesse Jackson did that "The Question is MOOT" game show on SNL way back when!
 
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