Anyone here dislike Bush?

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quote:

Originally posted by keith:
This is where the liberals really go nuts - Bush found religion and from there became a successful business owner, governor and President within 12 years.

Can we have a quick reality-check here? Here's a summary of Dub-ya's "successful businesses" -

In the West Texas energy business, George W. Bush started out researching who owned mineral rights. He later traded mineral and royalty interests and invested in drilling prospects. He had started his own oil and gas company by 1978, taking $17,000 from his education trust fund to set up Arbusto Energy (arbusto means Bush in Spanish). The company fell on hard times when oil prices fell. He made several attempts to revive the business, first by changing the company's name and later by merging with other companies. In 1983, Bush’s company was rescued from failure when Spectrum 7 Energy Corporation, a small oil firm owned by William DeWitt and Mercer Reynolds, bought it. Bush became chief executive officer. Harken Energy Corporation acquired Spectrum 7 in 1986, after Spectrum had lost $400,000. In the buyout deal, Bush and his partners were given more than $2 million worth of Harken stock for the 180-well operation. Bush became a director and was hired as a "consultant" to Harken. He received another $600,000 of Harken stock, and has been paid between $42,000 and $120,000 a year. By the spring of 1987, Harken was in need of cash. So Bush and his fellow Harken officials met with Jackson Stephens, head of Stephens, Inc., an investment bank in Little Rock, Arkansas (Stephens contributed $100,000 to the Reagan-Bush campaign in 1980 and gave another $100,000 to the Bush dinner committee in 1990.) Stephens arranged for Union Bank of Switzerland (UBS) to provide $25 million to Bush’s company in return for a stock interest in Harken. As part of the deal, Sheikh Abdullah Bakhsh, a Saudi real estate tycoon and financier, joined Harken's board as a major investor. Stephens, UBS, and Bakhsh each had ties to the infamous, scandal-ridden Bank of Credit and Commerce International (BCCI). In 1990, Bush sold his remaining stock options and left the oil business. Writer Jack Colhoun revealed some details of that stock sale, referring to Bush by his childhood nickname “Junior”:

On June 22, 1990, George Jr. sold two-thirds of his Harken stock for $848,560-a cool 200 percent profit. The move was well timed. One week after Junior sold his stock, Harken announced a $23.2 million loss in quarterly earnings and Harken stock dropped sharply, losing 60 percent of its value over the next six months. On August 2, 1990, Iraqi troops moved into Kuwait and 541,000 U.S. forces were deployed to the Gulf.

"There is substantial evidence to suggest that Bush knew Harken was in dire straits in the weeks before he sold the $848,560 of Harken stock," asserted U.S. News & World Report. The magazine noted Harken appointed Junior to a 'fairness committee' to study possible economic restructuring of the company. Junior worked closely with financial advisers from Smith Barney, Harris Upham & Company, who concluded "only drastic action could save Harken."

And lest I be accused of copying this from an anti-Bush site, here's where I found it - http://www.famoustexans.com/georgewbush.htm

[ January 27, 2004, 01:16 PM: Message edited by: tec97 ]
 
tec97, Your comments beg the question of where you served and what conflict ? If you did you have my utmost respect and support.That I have put into action not just BS.

I joined in 1977 as a Navy SH2F Helo crewman. We under orders from a very LIBERAL president were trying to free some US hostages held in Tehran. USS Brumby ( FF1044),the ship we operated from was attacked by 2 Iranian F-4's who had pursued our helicopter after we made a pass over Bandar Abaas Airforce base and port. All to distract from the main force moving in the desert.

Neither Jet opened fire and we where really sitting ducks, probably because both 5 inch guns jammed even though then Pres. Carter authorized us to fire, I realized at that moment no one wants to be shot at or killed and I don't harbor angst towards those that avoid it.

Yes Sprint just like the USS Liberty, left alone to distract and get killed. Most the guys on here have no idea about the 1967 mess that the Liberty encountered from our Zionist "friends" and their French mirage fighters.

I'm a slow learner( and I was getting free tribological training!) so later I joined the Army and flew both Helos and airplanes and realized that combat in Helo would NOT be a good thing. I flew with many Vietnam combat pilots( who taught me alot about flying a helicopter), who didn't begrudge those who avoided that mess.

I agree with you that many of the most vocal war proponents are people who call/listen to Limbaugh but never get out of the office for a run with a ruck and M16 ! Including Limbaugh.

Having a President who engages the military properly to protect our citizens is a breath of fresh air for me, instead of hanging the military out to die ! Like the Iranian Hostage Rescue debacle.

Finally and very recently I volunteered to fly our troops in and out of Kuwait and other destinations to help wack as many of those that think we are infidels and were willing to pull of the most effective special ops mission ever on 9/11.
So I guess I still haven't learned.

And no, I'm no Bush lover either.

[ January 27, 2004, 01:26 PM: Message edited by: Terry ]
 
How does it beg the question? It certainly would if I were a proponent of the Iraq war, but generally speaking, I'm not. My criticism is directed at those who loudly and vigorously beat war-drums but who didn't think military service was worth volunteering for, or worse, actively avoided it when there was a draft.
 
I wondered if you had served in a combat type unit or action based on your comments to Al.


I guess you comments awoke that part of me that despises ANYONE who sits on his butt in safety and wants me to sacrifice for him. Regardless of political opinion or color.

That includes the rear guard in the military too.

Sorry for the diatribe then.
 
quote:

Originally posted by tec97:
Originally posted by Al:
[qb] I get the impression from your posts that you've supported the war in Iraq from the get-go, and that you support the Bush policy of preemptive military action when he feels it is in our national interest. I interpret that as meaning you are willing to send our young men and women off to be maimed or killed when you yourself were not willing to make the same sacrifice.
This, incidentally, is why I despise Shawn Hannity.
Well that is your interpretation and you are entitled to it.
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I support the war-that is a fact sir. Your implication that if one does not serve he/she can not support war. That is absurd.

Do you really believe that anyone that did not serve can not also support a war.?? Or is that that person can only support a particular war?? Or perhaps if you had a physical disability -how does that fit in. Or perhaps if you only enlisted in the National guard that would allow one to support a certain type of war.

I propose a National Committee to determine under what conditions with respect to Military Service or Lack of-an individual could support a specific conflict conflict.

Also your words of "sending off to be maimed or killed" implies that it is a war where soldiers are sent off like cattle to the slaughterhouse. As I said-I believe this type of rhetoris does our soldiers a dis-service.
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quote:

Originally posted by Terry:
I wondered if you had served in a combat type unit or action based on your comments to Al.


I guess you comments awoke that part of me that despises ANYONE who sits on his butt in safety and wants me to sacrifice for him. Regardless of political opinion or color.

That includes the rear guard in the military too.

Sorry for the diatribe then.


In answer to your question then, I have never served in the military. Reagan was president when I turned 18, and I wanted to go to college, so I did. Then of course, we got Bush Sr. I neither liked nor trusted Reagan or Bush, so I opted against joining any branch. When Clinton was elected, I became more favorably disposed to the idea, but I was in grad school then - nonetheless, I was fully prepared to put that on hold and join the Air Force if we had become involved in a war in the Balkans - despite the lack of oil or other strategic resources, I believed that the evil being perpetrated by the Serbians was so great that I could not sit idly by when there was a chance to oppose it (and believe me, my then-girlfriend about crapped all over the place when I told here that!), but that never happened. Now I'm in my late 30's and am not terribly desireable to the military, plus there is no way in hell I'd serve w/ Dub-ya as my CiC - he's just not trustworthy.

The fact that I haven't served is a primary reason I like to take a really long, hard look at a situation before I'm willing to start rah-rahing for war.
 
quote:

Originally posted by tec97:

quote:

Originally posted by Terry:
Sorry for the diatribe then.

In answer to your question then, I have never served in the military. Reagan was president when I turned 18, and I wanted to go to college, so I did. Then of course, we got Bush Sr. I neither liked nor trusted Reagan or Bush, so I opted against joining any branch. When Clinton was elected, I became more favorably disposed to the idea, but I was in grad school then - nonetheless, I was fully prepared to put that on hold and join the Air Force if we had become involved in a war in the Balkans - despite the lack of oil or other strategic resources, I believed that the evil being perpetrated by the Serbians was so great that I could not sit idly by when there was a chance to oppose it (and believe me, my then-girlfriend about crapped all over the place when I told here that!), but that never happened. Now I'm in my late 30's and am not terribly desireable to the military, plus there is no way in hell I'd serve w/ Dub-ya as my CiC - he's just not trustworthy.

The fact that I haven't served is a primary reason I like to take a really long, hard look at a situation before I'm willing to start rah-rahing for war.


So you are in the same boat as me. And I certainly respect you for being honest
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I have regrets that I didn't serve. But its too late for that. But again its not a criteria for either supporting or not supporting militart action. And btw I do not care for Sean either.
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quote:

Originally posted by Al:
Originally posted by MarkC:
[qb] You mean joining the National Guard and training on an obsolete fighter so he wouldn't be have any chance in hell of being sent overseas doesn't make him a hero?
Well Mark-this is bf your time. You would not understand the depth of fear and hatered young folks had then for this war. Noooooooooo one that I knew went into the service unless they were drafted or were threatened with the draft. I personally grow weary of this inuendo. Most folks (like me) who avoided the draft were able to because they had connections or some sort. In my case my company felt I was a valuable engineer and wished to keep me) They had a connection with the draft board and made it happen. That was very common with engineers then. Does that make me a bad person?? Thats for others to decide.

Bush is not a war hero but he did go into the Air Guard. And I know that the guard was not exempt from the Nam trip. I have lots of friends in the military bc of the place I worked at. To a man they all love Bush-but to a man they all hated Clinton. So it may just be a big improvement in their minds.
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[ January 27, 2004, 12:11 PM: Message edited by: Al ]
 
It was before my time a bit Al.
But GWB intentionally joined the guard and got qualified on the F-102, knowing that they were pulled from duty in SE Asia in 1969.
If I had been old enough, I can't say how I would have reacted to the thought of going to Vietnam, but in my opinion, Bush joined the guard to give himself a little military credibility,while avoiding the chance of having to actually do anything.
Given, Gore did similar, but at least he went.
 
quote:

Originally posted by Terry:

Sprint, thats the definition of a young fighter pilot !


Well, I can testify to Terry's statement....many of them are nothing but a bunch of cocky and obnoxious jack-arses that think they are better than the rest of the world....especially fighter pilots. Later in life they realize they are nothing but an insignificant spec of dust in this huge universe.......and that's when they wise up!
 
quote:

Originally posted by Al:
Well Mark-this is bf your time. You would not understand the depth of fear and hatered young folks had then for this war. Noooooooooo one that I knew went into the service unless they were drafted or were threatened with the draft. I personally grow weary of this inuendo. Most folks (like me) who avoided the draft were able to because they had connections or some sort. In my case my company felt I was a valuable engineer and wished to keep me) They had a connection with the draft board and made it happen. That was very common with engineers then. Does that make me a bad person?? Thats for others to decide.

IMO, what it makes you is a chicken-hawk. I get the impression from your posts that you've supported the war in Iraq from the get-go, and that you support the Bush policy of preemptive military action when he feels it is in our national interest. I interpret that as meaning you are willing to send our young men and women off to be maimed or killed when you yourself were not willing to make the same sacrifice.

This, incidentally, is why I despise Shawn Hannity.
 
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purdue / iu hoops tonight!

go boilers!

as a liberal libertarian, i feel your pain, although my choices may be better than yours.

quote:

Originally posted by Terry:
"So somebody else knows about Bush past. I was starting to think only I'd done the research. Love this from a base commander "Bush quickly gets a reputation as a lazy hard drinking womaniser who mooches? cigarettes and dances naked on bar stools. Theres a lot more but people just don't want to know. "

Sprint, thats the definition of a young fighter pilot ! He did fly F102's and I respect that. Yes he got lost for 2 years after he transfered to the Air Guard unit in Alabama........ I'm a Conservative libertarian and have NO one to vote for !

Matt/tweeker, I grew up near Bloomington Indiana and Graduated from a REAL college, Embry-Riddle.
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Yes I have family members who taught and attended IU and Purdue but we don't talk about it much
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quote:

Originally posted by Al:
I have lots of friends in the military bc of the place I worked at. To a man they all love Bush-but to a man they all hated Clinton.

Two things come to mind. Clinton organized anti-US protests on foreign soil. Then there is the infamous "loathing the military" letter to the ROTC in 1969. Full text available here:

Bill Clinton's Letter to ROTC Colonel

You are probably correct that Bush took one of the easier options available to him, as did many of his contemporaries. As far as Bush being a drunken bar hopping bum, Bush himself tells the story so there is hardly anything secret there.

This is where the liberals really go nuts - Bush found religion and from there became a successful business owner, governor and President within 12 years. Unfortunately Lieberman has the same religion "disease" and the "tolerant" democrat party left despise him also.

We should all keep that in mind in regard to the worst of the Bush haters. They hate lots of people and are blinded by their hate. This is no way to live.

Keith.
 
I think we can safely say that the Democratic party has waaaay more problems and issues than Republicans.
 
When the day comes that politicians of both parties are forced to cross swords and not just words, we will at last have seen the end of war ....

Bring back the idea of national service - with NO deferrments
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Tooslick
USAFR
 
quote:

Originally posted by Al:
I seriously doubt your other examples. But I can say with 99+% confidence that your above statement sir is false. WWII is one of my hobies and although I am not a world expert-I know a lot. Please cite your reference source. [/QB]

Well, Al, I typed "pearl harbor attacks' into a search engine and the third link is this PEARL HARBOR Mother of all Conspiracies .

My source for this and all other ADMITTED AND REPORTED revealations has it's search engine down at the moment. However I will give you enough links in the near future that if you do in fact read them, you will come to the sad realization that they are in fact true. All I spoke of (and more) are just facts that have been reported in the past. When they are reported they are not put into context and the general public which gets its news from the BIASED media cannot see the bigger picture and has no basis of context. Once you see the lying and deceptions which are always later eventually reported and piece things together you will understand that we live in a very troubling time and it is getting ready to get MUCH worse (that part is speculation on my part as it has clearly not happened yet).

BTW, here is a link to the WTC 7 "collaps" that the gov't reported fell on it's own but the owner admitted he had demolished... here. There is a video you can watch. also check out his sites infowars.com and prisonplanet.com . and you might be surprised what you might find. BEWARE, these sites are not for those of you who are comfortable with your view of your utopian world.

Tim
 
Also check out this site (whatreallyhappened.com). Do a search for pearl harbor and start reading.

P.S. you can also search on that site for any of the info you don't believe in (and no, I have not done that yet with this site but am certain that the info is there).

Tim
 
quote:

Originally posted by Tim_Z:
Originally posted by Al:
BTW, here is a link to the WTC 7 "collaps" that the gov't reported fell on it's own but the owner admitted he had demolished...
Tim
Actually he told the firefighters not to bother fighting it because he was going to have it pulled. This kept anyone away from it when it collapsed all by itself. WTC7 caught fire 5 hours after the collapse of the last tower. It collapsed 1 hour later. It takes days to rig a building of that size to collapse assuming you have the demolition team already there with unfettered access and no fire to contend with. The charges had to have already been set before WTC1 and WTC2 were struck.

If it were common for large buildings to collapse after a 1 hour fire then we wouldn't have built any because no one would want to work in them and no firefighter would enter them once on fire.

Now you have to ask yourself. Why wasn't any of this brought up in our FREE PRESS much less investigated.

It is not what the press says and does but what they conspicously ignore and don't do that is of real importance.

My 2 cents worth. Actually 3 cents for those living in Europe, Canada, and Australia since that is what it is worth this year over last.
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Personally, I'm at the point to where I'll vote for whoever the Democrats run over Bush. My favorite, Gephart, dropped out. I just hope Dean doesn't get it. Make no mistake, as W. would say, I'm for anyone who will try to bring mfg. jobs back to the USA. Jeb also ticked me off when he overruled a court order and put that lady back on the feeding tube. After 13 years of coma, they should get a clue and realize she's not coming back. The eye movements, etc. were just reflexes. The husband was made out to look like the biggest POS on the planet, ignoring the fact that he is human and needs to get on with his life. God bless America!
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