Anyone have facts RE. trany fluid in engine?

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visch1

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There are a good # of people who post here that I admire for their posts and true knowledge. A lot OF OTHERS have the attitude that “if I said it, it’s true.”
A few weeks ago I purchased a 5 speed ‘98 Corolla with an honest 51K miles on it driven by a 88 year old woman who I spoke to and was hosed by her mechanic by saying the electric drivers window would cost $1100 to fix and it was ALL rusted underneath! She gave it away and I purchased it at a premium price for that year. I became very concerned after the fact regarding these engines in it with oil usage and sludge build up so with the fresh oil that came with it I did a Kreen treatment and fortunately/unfortunately the oil after 4/500 miles is fairly clear, not what I was expecting and at the same level, top pimple on the stick. I’m thinking that before I change the oil in about 1K more miles, add a PINT of auto transmission fluid to it. Those that understand please offer your thoughts. This is sort of a PM procedure as these engines are what they are, and I have no idea what it’s like internally. TYIA
 
You do not need to do that, nor is it safe. The additives in transmission fluids do not play nice in an engine crankcase. This is somewhat of an old myth because of how transmissions always looked cleaned when taken apart -- it's primarily because they don't suffer from blowby and other nasty processes, not because transmission fluid is ultra-high detergency or anything.

It sounds like the motor is fine. If you are concerned about sludge, pop off the valve cover and inspect it.
 
I have never used it and wouldn't but I have had good results cleaning up a sludger with MMO. I picked up a 2000 Camry that had a ticking noise (most likely from sludge build up I was told) when it was cold out.

I replaced about a quart of oil with MMO and did some short intervals on my oil change. (2-3k) I don't hear the ticking anymore.

I am not knocking your transmission fluid idea, I just like using products for what they were designed for, especially when it works!

AND CHANGE THE PCV!
 
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Some good comments, do you have many service records from her oil changes? Either way it sounds like you have done a good job trying to clean out the engine. I would just use your favorite conventional on sale or if you must use a synthetic I have seen with my own eyes the cleaning ability of Pennzoil Platinum and Ultra.
 
I have run 50-50 mix used ATF and old used motor oil in my 94 Saturn Sl2. It RUNS just fine and actually slowed down the oil burning. Up to 195000 miles on the engine in our Saturn now.
Good power still burns some oil.
ATF is a lower viscosity oil.
 
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Ditto with the change of PCV valve.

Next, run a few rounds of Pennzoil platinum to clean things up.

You'll be good for the next little while.

Also: RE: late 90s corolla oil burning issue: I attributed that to owner's negligence/fault, citing that currently I have (in my maintenance fleet) 2 late 90s (one a 99, the other a 2k, manufacturered in late 99), both got over 220kkms on them (with one of them being solely maintained by a local toyota servicing), none burn oil...of course: now under my maintenance scheme, I would have a much better servicing history on my end also.

Don't let that 0.01% on the internet fools you (content owners seldom, if ever, make the effort to go online and spread their dis-satisfaction; only that 0.01% cried the loudest)

Q.
 
Thanks for the responses. I like old fashion ideas which often worked, tho with old fashioned engines. The following quote is perhaps from this forum from the past:
"ATF IN CRANKCASE
Depending on the mileage of the engine, something we do with all the gunky engines at our shop is to toss either a cup of diesel or a half quart of transmission fluid in the crankcase. Both have huge amounts of detergents in them designed to breakdown carbon deposits. If your high mileage than its a totally different remedy. The transmission fluid is the best bet if you need to drive to a shop to change your fluids, and is also much safer for the engine, you can actually drive the vehicle around for a couple days with transmission fluid in the Crankcase. The diesel can only be put in before you change the oil...you start the engine and let it idle for 10-15 min, you cannot put any strain on the engine with diesel in there, no revving or driving.

Both are very good for cleaning sludge, but I really like the transmission fluid as it gives you a little more flexibility and you don't have to go try and buy a cup of diesel somewhere, or get a gallon and have no use for it after. also, a quart of cheep transmission fluid can be had for 3 bucks compared to the price of seafoam, this is an awesome deal, as it will do just as good a job.

If your engine is really gunky, you may want to run it for a couple days to break everything down in there, its also safer than diesel or seafoam as it will not break down the viscosity of the oil and keep the Minimum Oil Film Thickness (MOFT) between the bearings and crank.

I've used this trick for years, and have never had any ill effects. It really works and is a cheep trick."
 
ATF in the fuel tank is safer than ATF in the crankcase. Look at a VOA for ATF and you will see it has hardly any zinc or mainly or any other anti wear additive in it. You will dilute your add pack. Though so does MMO, Kreen, ARX or any other cleaner. You will find ATF does have good doses of boron, calcium and phosphorus.
 
I had an old 1985 Ford Ranger with noisy lifters. I substituted a quart of ATF for oil and ran it for a couple weeks. The oil really blackened up and the noisy lifters were silent. Many on here do not recommend it and will tell you it does awful things to your engine. In my case it worked like a charm.
I will say I would prefer to use Marvel Mystery Oil, a quart in my Silverado really did some cleaning, probably safer for the engine.
 
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Both have huge amounts of detergents in them designed to breakdown carbon deposits.


Sorry, but that is scientifically false.

Both of those fluids only act to reduce viscosity.

Use something like Pennzoil Platinum or a high calcium oil like Amsoil if you want to safely clean the engine.
 
I've used it in the motor before for a noisy lifter. It cured it and the fluid burned off. I will also add a quart to the gasoline to help clean injectors. My theory is the oil will stay on the ends of the injector when the engine is off. Dissolving any gum.
 
Originally Posted By: Michael_P
ATF in the fuel tank is safer than ATF in the crankcase. Look at a VOA for ATF and you will see it has hardly any zinc or mainly or any other anti wear additive in it. You will dilute your add pack. Though so does MMO, Kreen, ARX or any other cleaner. You will find ATF does have good doses of boron, calcium and phosphorus.


But does ATF in your fuel burn off clean? I know that TC-W3 is ash-less and most burns off clean in your combustion chamber while I'm guessing that very little enters the crankcase oil. I use a small dose of about 1 ounce of TC-W3 to every five gallons of gasoline along with 3 ounces of fuel system cleaner with PEA at every fill up. (Except for this fill up since I have 12 ounces of Kreen running now with my fill of gasoline.)

I don't know about adding a quart of ATF to your fill-up of fuel....maybe you can be kind enough to provide some links to educate us of the benefits of ATF in Gasoline?

Thanks in advance....
 
Just stay with the Kreen treatment and recheck at 1K miles... Kreen works... Just check out the other Kreen threads on the additives forum.
 
IMO....Kreen is a Real Dream! After my first run of a little over 1K miles on Kreen....I've seen and feel the results. Just look at my posts on the Kreen thread of "Kreen Experiences" to read if you wish. Now I'm on my second round of Kreen....I added 12 ounces to the gasoline and 16 ounces to the sump and I really notice the positive effects of the engine performance. Instead of a long trip....this time I'm using it for multiple medium trips and local driving.

My plans are to keep this second round in the sump for at least 1K to 1.5K miles. Who knows maybe longer....lol. When it comes for the OCI, I'll drain the oil and Kreen when hot.... and put some PU in the crankcase with a K&N over-sized filter.

IMO...It seems that if there happens to be any build up of dirt, carbon or sludge in the fuel tank, fuel line, injectors, combustion chamber, rings or engine..... that should not be there....IMO Kreen will find it and remove it fast.

My feelings about this product are not based on any scientific experiments....just my own observations of the last drain of Kreen and the current performance of my vehicle.

Kreen is not snake oil. IMO....Kreen is the real deal....Kreen is a Dream!
 
Originally Posted By: mongo161
IMO....Kreen is a Real Dream! After my first run of a little over 1K miles on Kreen....I've seen and feel the results. Just look at my posts on the Kreen thread of "Kreen Experiences" to read if you wish. Now I'm on my second round of Kreen....I added 12 ounces to the gasoline and 16 ounces to the sump and I really notice the positive effects of the engine performance. Instead of a long trip....this time I'm using it for multiple medium trips and local driving.

My plans are to keep this second round in the sump for at least 1K to 1.5K miles. Who knows maybe longer....lol. When it comes for the OCI, I'll drain the oil and Kreen when hot.... and put some PU in the crankcase with a K&N over-sized filter.

IMO...It seems that if there happens to be any build up of dirt, carbon or sludge in the fuel tank, fuel line, injectors, combustion chamber, rings or engine..... that should not be there....IMO Kreen will find it and remove it fast.

My feelings about this product are not based on any scientific experiments....just my own observations of the last drain of Kreen and the current performance of my vehicle.

Kreen is not snake oil. IMO....Kreen is the real deal....Kreen is a Dream!


I agree. There is overwhelming positive testimony backing the product, and the company I believe has been around since the 1930's. The positive feedback seems to gain more momentum by the day! Hard to argue that. I've also had the opportunity to speak with Trav at length about Kreen, and share our positive experiences with the product. He is a highly accredited auto tech, I have a lot of respect for what he says. He has no agenda either which is very nice.
 
Originally Posted By: visch1
Thanks for the responses. I like old fashion ideas which often worked, tho with old fashioned engines. The following quote is perhaps from this forum from the past:
"ATF IN CRANKCASE
Depending on the mileage of the engine, something we do with all the gunky engines at our shop is to toss either a cup of diesel or a half quart of transmission fluid in the crankcase. Both have huge amounts of detergents in them designed to breakdown carbon deposits.
Lots of misinformation in this posting. The thing to keep in mind is that most engines are very tolerant of the oil or whatever is in the crankcase--think of the postings & pics we've seen of totally sludged engines that are presently running OK (but not for much longer).

Anyway, here's what Lubrizol (one of the major additive makers) says about ATF:
ATF is the most complex of all lubricating fluids. Not only does it have to reduce friction to prevent wear like all lubricants, but it also has to allow a certain level of friction so clutch materials can engage. Since most OEMs use proprietary frictional materials, virtually every ATF is OEM-specific. In some cases, they're transmission-specific. In addition, ATFs must be compatible with all transmission components, operate at both low and high temperature extremes, and maintain constant performance for extended periods.

To accomplish these complex tasks, ATF typically contains the following components:


Dispersants... Sludge & varnish control
Antioxidants... Prohibit oxidation
Antiwear... Planetary gear, bushing, thrust washer protection
Friction modifier... Modify clutch plate and band friction
Corrosion inhibitor... Prevent corrosion and rust
Seal swell agent... Prevent loss of fluid via seals
Viscosity Improver... Reduce rate of change of viscosity
Pour Point Depressant... Improve low temperature fluidity
Foam inhibitor... Foam control
Red dye... Identification
http://www.lubrizol.com/DrivelineAdditives/AutomaticTransmissionFluidAdditives/default.html

NOT A WORD ABOUT DETERGENTS, 'cuz they aren't needed in the clean transmission. Use Marvel Mystery Oil or Kano Kreen if the engine actually is sludged and needs cleaning. Otherwise, stick with good engine oil. (By the way, diesel fuel is a poor cleaner--kerosene is much better, and don't use either in engine oil.)
 
Aren't ATFs mainly naphthenic based? That's why people use it to clean deposits left by engine oil which is paraffin based?
 
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