Anyone else pre-soak the filter?
- Thread starter jqgz
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Originally Posted by tblt44
Originally Posted by Chris142
If you do this you are supposed to fill it through the small holes. If you pour it into the big hole and there is any contamination in the oil or bottle it will go straight into the bearings unfiltered.
This is why it's important to check for metal shavings on the threads.
Dont believe filling it will change anything, I believe oil is pretty free of contanimants.
How in the world would you fill thru the small holes?
I use a small squeeze bottle with a tip that's narrow enough to fit inside of one of the inlet holes.
Originally Posted by Chris142
If you do this you are supposed to fill it through the small holes. If you pour it into the big hole and there is any contamination in the oil or bottle it will go straight into the bearings unfiltered.
This is why it's important to check for metal shavings on the threads.
Dont believe filling it will change anything, I believe oil is pretty free of contanimants.
How in the world would you fill thru the small holes?
I use a small squeeze bottle with a tip that's narrow enough to fit inside of one of the inlet holes.
If it feels good, do it.
This comes up on here from time to time. Its just a personal preference. I don't think anyone really believes it significantly affects engine life, but it makes them feel better to do it. My old F-150 has a 1qt filter and 260k miles and I can tell you it has never been prefilled once. with no issues.. I don't do it ever.
Originally Posted by UG_Passat
Originally Posted by jqgz
I picked up this habit from a relative who was an engineer and mentioned that a filter only filters when it's soaked in the media it needs to filter. Anyone else do this?
Maybe he's getting confused with K&N air filters. They filter better when they are dirty. OCD of clean oiled K&N air filters does more harm than good.
All automotive/truck air filters (not just K&N) are typically measured for INITIAL Efficiency and FINAL Efficiency. Basically the eff of a new filter, and then eff of a filter that has accumulated a cake and thus catches more/smaller particles. Same test different points in time and delta-P when the efficiency is captured. Typically just a gravimetric test with calibrated test dust where they measure how much dust was dosed versus how much made it through the filter and caught by the test rig's absolute filter pad.
Originally Posted by jqgz
I picked up this habit from a relative who was an engineer and mentioned that a filter only filters when it's soaked in the media it needs to filter. Anyone else do this?
Maybe he's getting confused with K&N air filters. They filter better when they are dirty. OCD of clean oiled K&N air filters does more harm than good.
All automotive/truck air filters (not just K&N) are typically measured for INITIAL Efficiency and FINAL Efficiency. Basically the eff of a new filter, and then eff of a filter that has accumulated a cake and thus catches more/smaller particles. Same test different points in time and delta-P when the efficiency is captured. Typically just a gravimetric test with calibrated test dust where they measure how much dust was dosed versus how much made it through the filter and caught by the test rig's absolute filter pad.
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Originally Posted by Char Baby
Maybe your relative/engineer means that...a completely dry(just installed new filter) will go into bypass mode unless it has oil in it. So that the engine gets enough lubrication upon startup right after a fresh OCI...???
That doesn't happen either. Why would an oil filter go into bypass if oil tries to flow through dry media?
You need massive delta-p across the media for the bypass valve to open, and oil initially flowing through dry media with zero back side resistance on the outlet side of the filter is not going to developer much flow delta-p, especially at start-up RPM.
Maybe your relative/engineer means that...a completely dry(just installed new filter) will go into bypass mode unless it has oil in it. So that the engine gets enough lubrication upon startup right after a fresh OCI...???
That doesn't happen either. Why would an oil filter go into bypass if oil tries to flow through dry media?
You need massive delta-p across the media for the bypass valve to open, and oil initially flowing through dry media with zero back side resistance on the outlet side of the filter is not going to developer much flow delta-p, especially at start-up RPM.
Originally Posted by caprice_2nv
I've read somewhere that there is no cleanliness standard for fresh motor oil. I don't know whether that is true or not. I would think most oil should be pretty clean straight out of the bottle, but if it were not it would be after going through the filter. Which is why people suggest not doing this or filling through the dirty side holes.
If you look at all the VOAs on the The Petroleum Quality Institute of America website, all the tested oil looks pretty clean. Doesn't mean that there could be some freak thing happen during oil manufacturing, but I'd think oil makers strive to keep the oil clean as possible and it's pretty clean in the bottle or jug.
I've read somewhere that there is no cleanliness standard for fresh motor oil. I don't know whether that is true or not. I would think most oil should be pretty clean straight out of the bottle, but if it were not it would be after going through the filter. Which is why people suggest not doing this or filling through the dirty side holes.
If you look at all the VOAs on the The Petroleum Quality Institute of America website, all the tested oil looks pretty clean. Doesn't mean that there could be some freak thing happen during oil manufacturing, but I'd think oil makers strive to keep the oil clean as possible and it's pretty clean in the bottle or jug.
Originally Posted by DudeNiceRide
All automotive/truck air filters (not just K&N) are typically measured for INITIAL Efficiency and FINAL Efficiency. Basically the eff of a new filter, and then eff of a filter that has accumulated a cake and thus catches more/smaller particles. Same test different points in time and delta-P when the efficiency is captured. Typically just a gravimetric test with calibrated test dust where they measure how much dust was dosed versus how much made it through the filter and caught by the test rig's absolute filter pad.
ISO 4548-12 is not a gravimetric efficiency and holding capacity test. It uses real time upstream and downstream particle counters. The filter holding capacity is based on how much debris the filter has captured between the start and end of the test run, which is stopped when the delta-p hits close to the bypass valve setting.
The ISO efficiency is the average of the beginning and ending points in the test run. Oil filters that have a bad ISO efficiency means the filtering media is inefficient and/or the media can't hold captured debris very well as the delta-p starts increasing across the media.
Oil filters don't "get more efficient as they load up" like air filters do. Oil filters experience much more delta-p across the media compared to air filters, and that delta-p can cause already captured particles to come off the media and go downstream, which hurts the efficiency. Mann+Hummel/Purolator has stated this through thier testing (ie, the "hockey stick" shaped efficiency curve as Purolator describes it). It been posted many times.
This "oil filters get more efficient as they load up" is a big misconception. Yeah, they get more efficient right before they go into bypass, then the efficiency really goes down hill.
All automotive/truck air filters (not just K&N) are typically measured for INITIAL Efficiency and FINAL Efficiency. Basically the eff of a new filter, and then eff of a filter that has accumulated a cake and thus catches more/smaller particles. Same test different points in time and delta-P when the efficiency is captured. Typically just a gravimetric test with calibrated test dust where they measure how much dust was dosed versus how much made it through the filter and caught by the test rig's absolute filter pad.
ISO 4548-12 is not a gravimetric efficiency and holding capacity test. It uses real time upstream and downstream particle counters. The filter holding capacity is based on how much debris the filter has captured between the start and end of the test run, which is stopped when the delta-p hits close to the bypass valve setting.
The ISO efficiency is the average of the beginning and ending points in the test run. Oil filters that have a bad ISO efficiency means the filtering media is inefficient and/or the media can't hold captured debris very well as the delta-p starts increasing across the media.
Oil filters don't "get more efficient as they load up" like air filters do. Oil filters experience much more delta-p across the media compared to air filters, and that delta-p can cause already captured particles to come off the media and go downstream, which hurts the efficiency. Mann+Hummel/Purolator has stated this through thier testing (ie, the "hockey stick" shaped efficiency curve as Purolator describes it). It been posted many times.
This "oil filters get more efficient as they load up" is a big misconception. Yeah, they get more efficient right before they go into bypass, then the efficiency really goes down hill.
Originally Posted by PimTac
If pouring unfiltered oil into the center of the filter might cause havoc on the bearings I wonder about all the unfiltered oil that get poured in through the fill hole?
I think it's a bunch of worry over nothing
That oil goes down into the oil pan where it gets picked up by the oil pump and filtered before going through the bearings.
If pouring unfiltered oil into the center of the filter might cause havoc on the bearings I wonder about all the unfiltered oil that get poured in through the fill hole?
I think it's a bunch of worry over nothing
That oil goes down into the oil pan where it gets picked up by the oil pump and filtered before going through the bearings.
Yes, pre soak oil filter for the past 35 years.
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Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by DudeNiceRide
All automotive/truck air filters (not just K&N) are typically measured for INITIAL Efficiency and FINAL Efficiency. Basically the eff of a new filter, and then eff of a filter that has accumulated a cake and thus catches more/smaller particles. Same test different points in time and delta-P when the efficiency is captured. Typically just a gravimetric test with calibrated test dust where they measure how much dust was dosed versus how much made it through the filter and caught by the test rig's absolute filter pad.
ISO 4548-12 is not a gravimetric efficiency and holding capacity test. It uses real time upstream and downstream particle counters. The filter holding capacity is based on how much debris the filter has captured between the start and end of the test run, which is stopped when the delta-p hits close to the bypass valve setting.
The ISO efficiency is the average of the beginning and ending points in the test run. Oil filters that have a bad ISO efficiency means the filtering media is inefficient and/or the media can't hold captured debris very well as the delta-p starts increasing across the media.
Oil filters don't "get more efficient as they load up" like air filters do. Oil filters experience much more delta-p across the media compared to air filters, and that delta-p can cause already captured particles to come off the media and go downstream, which hurts the efficiency. Mann+Hummel/Purolator has stated this through thier testing (ie, the "hockey stick" shaped efficiency curve as Purolator describes it). It been posted many times.
This "oil filters get more efficient as they load up" is a big misconception. Yeah, they get more efficient right before they go into bypass, then the efficiency really goes down hill.
We were talking about AIR FILTERS, not oil filters.
Air filter = ISO5011 (gravi)
Oil Filter = ISO4548-12 (particle ct.)
Originally Posted by DudeNiceRide
All automotive/truck air filters (not just K&N) are typically measured for INITIAL Efficiency and FINAL Efficiency. Basically the eff of a new filter, and then eff of a filter that has accumulated a cake and thus catches more/smaller particles. Same test different points in time and delta-P when the efficiency is captured. Typically just a gravimetric test with calibrated test dust where they measure how much dust was dosed versus how much made it through the filter and caught by the test rig's absolute filter pad.
ISO 4548-12 is not a gravimetric efficiency and holding capacity test. It uses real time upstream and downstream particle counters. The filter holding capacity is based on how much debris the filter has captured between the start and end of the test run, which is stopped when the delta-p hits close to the bypass valve setting.
The ISO efficiency is the average of the beginning and ending points in the test run. Oil filters that have a bad ISO efficiency means the filtering media is inefficient and/or the media can't hold captured debris very well as the delta-p starts increasing across the media.
Oil filters don't "get more efficient as they load up" like air filters do. Oil filters experience much more delta-p across the media compared to air filters, and that delta-p can cause already captured particles to come off the media and go downstream, which hurts the efficiency. Mann+Hummel/Purolator has stated this through thier testing (ie, the "hockey stick" shaped efficiency curve as Purolator describes it). It been posted many times.
This "oil filters get more efficient as they load up" is a big misconception. Yeah, they get more efficient right before they go into bypass, then the efficiency really goes down hill.
We were talking about AIR FILTERS, not oil filters.
Air filter = ISO5011 (gravi)
Oil Filter = ISO4548-12 (particle ct.)
Originally Posted by DudeNiceRide
We were talking about AIR FILTERS, not oil filters.
Air filter = ISO5011 (gravi)
Oil Filter = ISO4548-12 (particle ct.)
"We" are? ... this is the OIL FILTERS forum. Do you pre-soak your air filters (besides K&Ns) too?
We were talking about AIR FILTERS, not oil filters.
Air filter = ISO5011 (gravi)
Oil Filter = ISO4548-12 (particle ct.)
"We" are? ... this is the OIL FILTERS forum. Do you pre-soak your air filters (besides K&Ns) too?
Originally Posted by PontiacHO
... the 1.5 seconds without oil pressure doesn't hurt anything. ...
In that case, anti-drainback valves are superfluous.
... the 1.5 seconds without oil pressure doesn't hurt anything. ...
In that case, anti-drainback valves are superfluous.
Yes both of my vehicles take canister filters mounted vertically (base up) so I always pre-fill them with fresh oil before installation.
Just did one today. I prefill them whenever possible.
Originally Posted by LMG1
Originally Posted by tblt44
Originally Posted by Chris142
If you do this you are supposed to fill it through the small holes. If you pour it into the big hole and there is any contamination in the oil or bottle it will go straight into the bearings unfiltered.
This is why it's important to check for metal shavings on the threads.
Dont believe filling it will change anything, I believe oil is pretty free of contanimants.
How in the world would you fill thru the small holes?
I use a small squeeze bottle with a tip that's narrow enough to fit inside of one of the inlet holes.
I just reattempted this last night and couldn't find any way to push open the anti drain back valve. The oil just sat on top of it and proved the fact that the valve works.
Originally Posted by tblt44
Originally Posted by Chris142
If you do this you are supposed to fill it through the small holes. If you pour it into the big hole and there is any contamination in the oil or bottle it will go straight into the bearings unfiltered.
This is why it's important to check for metal shavings on the threads.
Dont believe filling it will change anything, I believe oil is pretty free of contanimants.
How in the world would you fill thru the small holes?
I use a small squeeze bottle with a tip that's narrow enough to fit inside of one of the inlet holes.
I just reattempted this last night and couldn't find any way to push open the anti drain back valve. The oil just sat on top of it and proved the fact that the valve works.
Originally Posted by caprice_2nv
I just reattempted this last night and couldn't find any way to push open the anti drain back valve. The oil just sat on top of it and proved the fact that the valve works.
Admittedly, this is a tedious process. You can push the ADBV down just enough to open it by gently inserting a thin blunt object into the inlet hole next to the one you're using with the squeeze bottle. Gently squeeze the bottle a little at a time and let gravity do the rest.
I just reattempted this last night and couldn't find any way to push open the anti drain back valve. The oil just sat on top of it and proved the fact that the valve works.
Admittedly, this is a tedious process. You can push the ADBV down just enough to open it by gently inserting a thin blunt object into the inlet hole next to the one you're using with the squeeze bottle. Gently squeeze the bottle a little at a time and let gravity do the rest.
Cartridge filter, no. Spin on, yes if possible.
