Do You Pre Fill Your Oil Filter?
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I prefilled whenever possible and if I remembered which I usually forgot.
Even though I agree with:
Originally Posted By: tc1446
Not in the last 60 years in cars, trucks, tractors or motorcycles.
and
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Originally Posted By: simple_gifts
No.
I'd probably pay attention to anybody who's gotten 335K and counting out of an Echo.
My answer is: yes, can't hurt and might help.
Agree it's
BUT as new people join they may ask similar questions as have been asked before. Doesn't hurt to have these come to the top of the forum once and awhile to pass the knowledge!
Oh, and....
could it be possible that the sudden surge of oil against dry media is contributing in some way to all the media tears in some filters?
Originally Posted By: tc1446
Not in the last 60 years in cars, trucks, tractors or motorcycles.
and
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Originally Posted By: simple_gifts
No.
I'd probably pay attention to anybody who's gotten 335K and counting out of an Echo.
My answer is: yes, can't hurt and might help.
Agree it's
Oh, and....
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Kuato
Oh, and....
could it be possible that the sudden surge of oil against dry media is contributing in some way to all the media tears in some filters?
There is a sudden surge of oil every time you start the engine, or any time you punch the throttle. The "oil surge" against dry media shouldn't be any different or more stressful than the same surge when the filter is filled with oil. If it was, a lot of oil filters would be torn.
Oh, and....
There is a sudden surge of oil every time you start the engine, or any time you punch the throttle. The "oil surge" against dry media shouldn't be any different or more stressful than the same surge when the filter is filled with oil. If it was, a lot of oil filters would be torn.
I don't bother prefilling, not an issue if doing hot drains.
Originally Posted By: tstep
I'll put some oil in the filter, but not full. Maybe 1/2 to 3/4 depending on the limbo the filter needs to do to get into place without spillage.
+1.....enough to avoid spillage....but I frankly think that it makes little difference as I understand that oil gets to the necessary area in a fraction of a second.
I'll put some oil in the filter, but not full. Maybe 1/2 to 3/4 depending on the limbo the filter needs to do to get into place without spillage.
+1.....enough to avoid spillage....but I frankly think that it makes little difference as I understand that oil gets to the necessary area in a fraction of a second.
Originally Posted By: Nate1979
Been discussed many many times.
True, but this is the kind of nitpicky topic that brings people to BITOG in the first place.
Been discussed many many times.
True, but this is the kind of nitpicky topic that brings people to BITOG in the first place.
Whenever possible. Whatever helps prime the oil system, same reason most filters have an anti-drain value. The pre-soaking cellulose based media and media equalization is also a benefit to minimize the initial force against media. Maybe partly responsible for my pre-filled P1's (Honda) holding up while my non fill-able P1's (Toyota) have shown media failures.
Just saw an episode of Wheeler Dealers where Edd pre-filled a filter.
Just saw an episode of Wheeler Dealers where Edd pre-filled a filter.
Originally Posted By: mr_diy
Whenever possible. Whatever helps prime the oil system, same reason most filters have an anti-drain value. The pre-soaking cellulose based media and media equalization is also a benefit to minimize the initial force against media. Maybe partly responsible for my pre-filled P1's (Honda) holding up while my non fill-able P1's (Toyota) have shown media failures.
Just saw an episode of Wheeler Dealers where Edd pre-filled a filter.
That may be a good test. Pre fill one, start it, take it off and cut it open, do the same with a dry filter and see if there is a difference. I am sure someone would be willing to do this. I am no longer buying anything PuroLeaker, but if I still had some that I was afraid to use, I would do it.
Whenever possible. Whatever helps prime the oil system, same reason most filters have an anti-drain value. The pre-soaking cellulose based media and media equalization is also a benefit to minimize the initial force against media. Maybe partly responsible for my pre-filled P1's (Honda) holding up while my non fill-able P1's (Toyota) have shown media failures.
Just saw an episode of Wheeler Dealers where Edd pre-filled a filter.
That may be a good test. Pre fill one, start it, take it off and cut it open, do the same with a dry filter and see if there is a difference. I am sure someone would be willing to do this. I am no longer buying anything PuroLeaker, but if I still had some that I was afraid to use, I would do it.
sure do!
even if the filter is horizontally mounted, I'll pour oil in and rotate the filter to presoak soak all the pleats
even if the filter is horizontally mounted, I'll pour oil in and rotate the filter to presoak soak all the pleats
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Yes!
Never.
Vertical mount, yes.
Horizontal mount, no.
Does it make a difference if you prefill a filter prior to installation? No.
Horizontal mount, no.
Does it make a difference if you prefill a filter prior to installation? No.
dnewton3
Staff member
Some thoughts about the topic:
1) I find it ironic that many BITOGers who obsess about filtration see no inherrent harm in filling a filter in the center hole, which is AFTER the media in terms of flow. Somehow, these folks who are finicky on finite filtration don't seem to realize that "new" oil is not always "clean" oil ... And so, there is potential harm that can come from this practice. It is not an assurance of harm, but a potential for harm. Again, the irony simply amazes me about these folks.
2) Most wear in equipment comes right after the OCI, but it's not because of the filter being filled or not, but the first few thousands miles of operation as the tribochemical barrier is first stripped away by the add-pack. Only after a few thousand miles of operation will the oxidation start to postively have effect on wear rates. Those of you who worry about "wear" from a dry filter are fooling yourself as to the importance of a few seconds of "dry" start. When you OCI, it's not like the tribochemical barrier IMMEDIATELY dissolves and you're at "metal to metal" contact. That barrier errodes over the first few hundred miles, and then the oxidation promotes the development of the barrier again. Purchase, read and understand SAE 2007-01-4133, and read my article on "normalcy" of UOAs. The data from MILLIONS of miles of testing confirm this to be true. The wear from a "dry start" is so freakin' infintessimally small in terms of overall wear it's past being moot. Only a BITOGer would consider this worthy of breath ...
3) There is no credible study that I'm aware of that reveals any evidence whatsoever as to the wear patterns of either practice when contrasted to each other (filling v. not filling). If you know of one, for goodness sake please post it up. Don't link some silly theory from your neighbor's 1968 Chevelle that spun a bearing after an OCI; give me credible proof in a well-controlled study from a recongizeable entity such as SAE, PERA, etc. Want to know why there has not been a study done? It's simple ...
How much time and money would need to be spent to contrast the following methodology:
a) perform an O/FCI
b) start engine and let run until pressure fully realized
c) shut down and start over at step "a"
How many times would you have to do this to equate to 5k miles of "normal" driving? You see, we know with near-absolute certainty how much wear comes from "normal" habits. We can show with great definition that the variance of "normal" engine wear is FAR, FAR greater than one filter exchange method over another. Some folks always pre-fill; some never pre-fill. And yet UOA data shows the varianace of normalcy far exceeds that of one filter change method. So the ONLY way to definitively invoke wear unique to the filter exchange method would be to eliminate all driving and ONLY focus on the starts. You'll send me a PM when you've completed that study in your garage, eh?
4) The media will always be protected by the bypass valve, even if you don't fill and have a "dry start". The media is no more likely to be damaged at a dry start than when you open the BP valve during a cold start event with high-vis lube. I see this as the "ying" to the "yang" of pre-filling. Either way you're going to get unfiltered oil downstream of the media for a short time. Get over it guys; it' happens either way. And because of this, I lead into my final point ....
5) This "debate" is yet another example how BITOG has degraded from a "test and see; let's prove a hypothesis" to a "I think ... I feel ..." lube-wetted fantasy FaceBook pretender.
1) I find it ironic that many BITOGers who obsess about filtration see no inherrent harm in filling a filter in the center hole, which is AFTER the media in terms of flow. Somehow, these folks who are finicky on finite filtration don't seem to realize that "new" oil is not always "clean" oil ... And so, there is potential harm that can come from this practice. It is not an assurance of harm, but a potential for harm. Again, the irony simply amazes me about these folks.
2) Most wear in equipment comes right after the OCI, but it's not because of the filter being filled or not, but the first few thousands miles of operation as the tribochemical barrier is first stripped away by the add-pack. Only after a few thousand miles of operation will the oxidation start to postively have effect on wear rates. Those of you who worry about "wear" from a dry filter are fooling yourself as to the importance of a few seconds of "dry" start. When you OCI, it's not like the tribochemical barrier IMMEDIATELY dissolves and you're at "metal to metal" contact. That barrier errodes over the first few hundred miles, and then the oxidation promotes the development of the barrier again. Purchase, read and understand SAE 2007-01-4133, and read my article on "normalcy" of UOAs. The data from MILLIONS of miles of testing confirm this to be true. The wear from a "dry start" is so freakin' infintessimally small in terms of overall wear it's past being moot. Only a BITOGer would consider this worthy of breath ...
3) There is no credible study that I'm aware of that reveals any evidence whatsoever as to the wear patterns of either practice when contrasted to each other (filling v. not filling). If you know of one, for goodness sake please post it up. Don't link some silly theory from your neighbor's 1968 Chevelle that spun a bearing after an OCI; give me credible proof in a well-controlled study from a recongizeable entity such as SAE, PERA, etc. Want to know why there has not been a study done? It's simple ...
How much time and money would need to be spent to contrast the following methodology:
a) perform an O/FCI
b) start engine and let run until pressure fully realized
c) shut down and start over at step "a"
How many times would you have to do this to equate to 5k miles of "normal" driving? You see, we know with near-absolute certainty how much wear comes from "normal" habits. We can show with great definition that the variance of "normal" engine wear is FAR, FAR greater than one filter exchange method over another. Some folks always pre-fill; some never pre-fill. And yet UOA data shows the varianace of normalcy far exceeds that of one filter change method. So the ONLY way to definitively invoke wear unique to the filter exchange method would be to eliminate all driving and ONLY focus on the starts. You'll send me a PM when you've completed that study in your garage, eh?
4) The media will always be protected by the bypass valve, even if you don't fill and have a "dry start". The media is no more likely to be damaged at a dry start than when you open the BP valve during a cold start event with high-vis lube. I see this as the "ying" to the "yang" of pre-filling. Either way you're going to get unfiltered oil downstream of the media for a short time. Get over it guys; it' happens either way. And because of this, I lead into my final point ....
5) This "debate" is yet another example how BITOG has degraded from a "test and see; let's prove a hypothesis" to a "I think ... I feel ..." lube-wetted fantasy FaceBook pretender.
Originally Posted By: cmhj
Always pre-fill when possible.
Same here.
Always pre-fill when possible.
Same here.
Originally Posted By: dnewton3
4) The media will always be protected by the bypass valve, even if you don't fill and have a "dry start". The media is no more likely to be damaged at a dry start than when you open the BP valve during a cold start event with high-vis lube. I see this as the "ying" to the "yang" of pre-filling. Either way you're going to get unfiltered oil downstream of the media for a short time. Get over it guys; it' happens either way. And because of this, I lead into my final point ....
Bypass? This is WRONG from a fluid dynamics point of view, and those trying to use pre and post pressure sensors don't "get it" how fluid flow and pressure works in the presence of an air gap, especially at cold temperatures.
If oil practically never tears media, please explain the current Purolator situation, which may have correlation with the recent harsh Winter weather.
Also any manufacturer selling new oil not suitable for immediate lubrication duties would be driven off the market very quickly, as would every filter-less motorcycle and decades of outdoor power equipment engines.
4) The media will always be protected by the bypass valve, even if you don't fill and have a "dry start". The media is no more likely to be damaged at a dry start than when you open the BP valve during a cold start event with high-vis lube. I see this as the "ying" to the "yang" of pre-filling. Either way you're going to get unfiltered oil downstream of the media for a short time. Get over it guys; it' happens either way. And because of this, I lead into my final point ....
Bypass? This is WRONG from a fluid dynamics point of view, and those trying to use pre and post pressure sensors don't "get it" how fluid flow and pressure works in the presence of an air gap, especially at cold temperatures.
If oil practically never tears media, please explain the current Purolator situation, which may have correlation with the recent harsh Winter weather.
Also any manufacturer selling new oil not suitable for immediate lubrication duties would be driven off the market very quickly, as would every filter-less motorcycle and decades of outdoor power equipment engines.
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