Did you change back to DINO? I'm considering it since reading so many entries here of people getting >200k miles with DINO.
Any former synthetic users?
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Thanks to the knowlegeable folks here I have switched back to dino in both cars. My wife's '01 Monte Carlo gets changed according to the OLM, normally it goes the max, 7500 mi. It doesn't appear even that justifies M1, so next change it goes to TA 5w30 from WM, everyday price $1.48/qt.
My hard working '01 Hyundai gets changed every 5K, the manual calls for 10W30 or 10W40, I have been running 10W30 all year round but think I'll treat it to some 10W40 next time, either ST or TA depending on what Wally's stocking. I've recently started towing my 14' alum. boat with it, yes I know the owners manual says they don't recommend it for towing, but it handles it quite nicely.
The conventional wisdom is that synthetics aren't really needed for the OCI I'm comfortable with, all that's required is an SM rated oil. I use either Puro Premium + or Supertech filters.
My hard working '01 Hyundai gets changed every 5K, the manual calls for 10W30 or 10W40, I have been running 10W30 all year round but think I'll treat it to some 10W40 next time, either ST or TA depending on what Wally's stocking. I've recently started towing my 14' alum. boat with it, yes I know the owners manual says they don't recommend it for towing, but it handles it quite nicely.
The conventional wisdom is that synthetics aren't really needed for the OCI I'm comfortable with, all that's required is an SM rated oil. I use either Puro Premium + or Supertech filters.
Aye, Synthetics don't make sense when not specifacly recomended for the application. I have there fore stopped purchasing synthetics and gone to a easy 5k 6 month oci with conventiona. sm. Good stuff..
Nothing wrong with synthetics. For many, they're just overkill.
I use Delo in my Vette , but I still have some Havoline Syn and Mobil 1 left over that I bought very cheap.
In my wife's Honda and both my parents Hondas, I no longer use synthetic...
strictly Havoline, Exxon Superflo, SuperTech, Castrol GTX, TropArtic. No need for syn in thses cars. You can still find many dinos for less than $1 if you look around.
In my wife's Honda and both my parents Hondas, I no longer use synthetic...
strictly Havoline, Exxon Superflo, SuperTech, Castrol GTX, TropArtic. No need for syn in thses cars. You can still find many dinos for less than $1 if you look around.
I tried synthetic (mobil1) in my VW Jetta once when it was about one year old. I just didn't like the way it made the engine feel, although it's hard to explain *how* it made it feel different, it just did. I went back to dino the next OCI and I settled on Valvoline 20w50 All-Climate.
11 years and 225,000 miles later when i sold it, it ran perfect, used no oil, still got the same gas-mileage as when new, and had been red-lined weekly it's entire life.
The last 5 or so years i owned it, instead of the usual Valvoline, i used the Napa branded Valvoline, which is supposed to have a "weaker" additive pack. If it's weaker, it's obviously still good enough.
Well, ok, the car wasn't perfect, i did have to replace the clutch once, but nothing oil related whatsoever
I also ran Valvoline 75w90 in the transmission, which never gave me a problem.
I think synthetic is great for certain applications and some day i might be tempted to try it again in my current car, but considering the price and how often i like to change my oil, i just dont see it as a financial benefit when dino oils are so good.
BTW, my oil NEVER saw more than 3000 miles.
11 years and 225,000 miles later when i sold it, it ran perfect, used no oil, still got the same gas-mileage as when new, and had been red-lined weekly it's entire life.
The last 5 or so years i owned it, instead of the usual Valvoline, i used the Napa branded Valvoline, which is supposed to have a "weaker" additive pack. If it's weaker, it's obviously still good enough.
Well, ok, the car wasn't perfect, i did have to replace the clutch once, but nothing oil related whatsoever
I also ran Valvoline 75w90 in the transmission, which never gave me a problem.
I think synthetic is great for certain applications and some day i might be tempted to try it again in my current car, but considering the price and how often i like to change my oil, i just dont see it as a financial benefit when dino oils are so good.
BTW, my oil NEVER saw more than 3000 miles.
Because of a rear main seal leak that seems to act-up when running synths, I've tried to "convert" (found myself adding one qt of GC to an otherwise crude blend...some high mileage).
I'm still trying to break through all the hoopla and mis-information with all the crude, synths, and everything in between. I can't help but to have f@ith in the API, for I am of little to no experience in comparison.
This site has proven to be a big help for me with trying to wade through the mass of information bits and boastful angles with the as advertised sales pitches that I have come across through my years as a concerned owner/operator.
Though it's only been a few days since I changed out the oil and filter, all seems fine...if not more quiet.
I'm still trying to break through all the hoopla and mis-information with all the crude, synths, and everything in between. I can't help but to have f@ith in the API, for I am of little to no experience in comparison.
This site has proven to be a big help for me with trying to wade through the mass of information bits and boastful angles with the as advertised sales pitches that I have come across through my years as a concerned owner/operator.
Though it's only been a few days since I changed out the oil and filter, all seems fine...if not more quiet.
I've considered trying a cheap group iii based oil or a blend such as the Super Tech 'Synthetic' and TropAr. to see how they perform in comparison to synthetics and then probably just using a synthetic throughout the winter for the nicer cold starts and to have an OCI to help keep things clean. If the group iii doesn't look awesome then I will just go along with HDEO's as I've had great luck so far with them and they come in a cheap gallon jug. I will probably be running synthetics until next spring because I want my newly aquired engine to be clean and I like how synthetics have done that for me in the past.
I run synthetic in the winter only, just to ease the start up. Conventional during the four warm months.
I am still on synthetic with 1 year OCI: 1994 LS400 about 15k miles/yr; 2000 E430 about 12k miles/yr; 2004 S2000 with 6-7k miles/yr. Conventional oil would not lasted once a year oil change or more than 10k miles.
i sut switched back to dino myself, yesterday, doing an oil change, well i am using mobile clean 7500, but next i am jus going ot plane jan dino, i jsut simply cnanot do 3,000 in 3 months, mayb in like 6 months yes. my 95 neon was noiseier with mobile 1 5w 30, but with dino, its much quiter, and enigne runs MUCH smoother on dino! gas mileage seemed to improve too, with dino.
I ran 5K on M1 last year, the 3.4L in my Grand Am didn't seem to run too well on it. Following that was 2 OCI's of GC changed per the OLM, which came to roughly 7K each. Engine ran smooth and quiet but was a tad sluggish. It's a pretty weak engine in the first place lol. Anyway, now I decided to run dino in it because I don't drive it hard at all, and I just don't feel justified in running a syn anymore. It has some Exxon Superflo in it right now, and so far so good. Runs pretty smooth, fairly quiet, but it has more pep in it. I also went and bought a jug of ST dino, and a case of Pennz dino that I got on sale at AA for 1.68/qt (which I assume is a good price...better than the regular price at least lol). The only reason I might switch back to a syn is to run it till the OLM tells me to change it, again which has historically been around 7K for my driving. Sorry, but I just can't see myself running dino that long...
For sure the bar has been raised considerably. For me, there is absolutely no question conventional oil will run just fine. The yardstick I have used over 765,000 miles is 15,000 miles- 25,000 miles OCI's with Mobil One's 5w30, 5w40, and of late 0w20, and 5w20. The only conventional oil that comes even close is a 10,000 mile OCI using 5w20 for a Honda Civic. I personally have notice anywhere from a .5-3 mpg difference between conventional and synthetic. However it is very clear that not everyone tracks this or even cares, let alone it smacking them between the eyes with a 2x4.
So in my cases, the effects in my applications: the higher cost of synthetics combined with the fuel saved trumps the cheaper conventional oil and the higher fuel consumption.
A spin off is one uses less resources using a 15-25k OCI's vs more normal 3,5,7.5k OCI's. However the majority doesn't really care or make the connection, as to the environmental impact.
[ April 22, 2006, 11:19 AM: Message edited by: ruking77 ]
I switched my 90 Toyota truck from Mobil 1 synthetic to Havoline dino a few months ago. From a cost/benefit standpoint, I just couldn't justify it for this vehicle. I'm also running the same Havoline in my 89 Cressida. My 00 Sienna, on the other hand, continues to get Mobil 1. With this engine's propensity to be hard on oil, I feel synthetic is justified in this application.
I run my Mazda B6 block for 10+ yrs in supposedly full sync (Q-state full sync 10W30, occasionally switching over to 5W50 for spirited/extended mountain driving) until about 1.5 yrs ago that I came across a good stash of Formula Shell dino 10W30 that the price is simply too good to let go, so now I mix 1 bottle of Q-state 5W50 full sync with the rest in Formula shell 10W30 and also LC and been on this diet ever since...car got in excess of 180kkms, no leaks and not a drop of oil loss/burns.
doing the same thing to my dad's 7-gen Civic with Forumla Shell 5W30 GL-4 mixed with 1 bottle of Motomaster full sync 5W20 and it too, runs like a champ..
HAve I completely abandoned full sync? Not a chance. I just happened to work out a good combo for all my home cars w/o breaking my wallet.
doing the same thing to my dad's 7-gen Civic with Forumla Shell 5W30 GL-4 mixed with 1 bottle of Motomaster full sync 5W20 and it too, runs like a champ..
HAve I completely abandoned full sync? Not a chance. I just happened to work out a good combo for all my home cars w/o breaking my wallet.
JHZR2
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We run syn oils on all of our cars... 9 in all.
I wish I had taken some UOAs in my father's 94 previa before switching to syn at 160k. It had gotten 7500mi OCIs on 10w30 dealer dino for its life until then. Syn OCIs have ben awesome... 8ppm Fe over 10-13k miles, with negligible anything else... I wonder how the dino UOAs would stand up.
For us, we 'extend' OCIs, based upon UOA and what we feel would be the right interval otherwise. For example, my mother drives 5 blocks with textbooks and whatnot, 4x per day... and then to the supermarket maybe twice a week. Super-severe service, right? Car never gets anywhere near temp at all... bad thing, right? Well syn oil providdes protection to the point where we get very normal and excellent UOAs with this profile, with OCIs anywhere from 6months to a year.
Syn does give some MPG improvement. It also provides the opportunity to stretch out intervals without worry. Is dino quite excellent? for sure! Some of the new dinos are really showing great performance... and its not like we hadnt had great experience with dino at up to 7500 mi ocis in the old days... however the peace of mind and great results all around, mostly on M1 but also on GC and rotella syn.. in cars, trucks, diesels, lawnmowers, etc. has been worth the little bit extra cost.
All in all, I think weve about broken even... what more can I ask for... shoul dI even care at that point?
The only application Im thinking of potentially switching back to dino is in my 98 Chevy S10 ZR2. I LOVE that truck, and it was the first vehicle I ever bought. I plan to keep it forever... I dont use it for commuting, and with gas prices being so much higher (they were 80c/gal when I bought it), Ive been limiting even how much weekend use it gets. Its great when we go biking or carrying stuff, and I wnt sell it, but it just sees a bit less use. This makes me worry about potential corrosion or condensation issues, even if it always gets up to full oil temperature when it is used. As I understand dino oil is superior to syn for corrosion protection, Im seriously thinking of switching to havoline with LC from my current choice of GC with LC... and if I change it 2-3x/year instead of once, well, i get under the truck a bit more, and the oil gets changed... fun... but Ill only change if I can prove to myself that the dino will give better protection in the sitting condition that it sees... maybe gtx startup is another option... I just have to see...
JMH
I wish I had taken some UOAs in my father's 94 previa before switching to syn at 160k. It had gotten 7500mi OCIs on 10w30 dealer dino for its life until then. Syn OCIs have ben awesome... 8ppm Fe over 10-13k miles, with negligible anything else... I wonder how the dino UOAs would stand up.
For us, we 'extend' OCIs, based upon UOA and what we feel would be the right interval otherwise. For example, my mother drives 5 blocks with textbooks and whatnot, 4x per day... and then to the supermarket maybe twice a week. Super-severe service, right? Car never gets anywhere near temp at all... bad thing, right? Well syn oil providdes protection to the point where we get very normal and excellent UOAs with this profile, with OCIs anywhere from 6months to a year.
Syn does give some MPG improvement. It also provides the opportunity to stretch out intervals without worry. Is dino quite excellent? for sure! Some of the new dinos are really showing great performance... and its not like we hadnt had great experience with dino at up to 7500 mi ocis in the old days... however the peace of mind and great results all around, mostly on M1 but also on GC and rotella syn.. in cars, trucks, diesels, lawnmowers, etc. has been worth the little bit extra cost.
All in all, I think weve about broken even... what more can I ask for... shoul dI even care at that point?
The only application Im thinking of potentially switching back to dino is in my 98 Chevy S10 ZR2. I LOVE that truck, and it was the first vehicle I ever bought. I plan to keep it forever... I dont use it for commuting, and with gas prices being so much higher (they were 80c/gal when I bought it), Ive been limiting even how much weekend use it gets. Its great when we go biking or carrying stuff, and I wnt sell it, but it just sees a bit less use. This makes me worry about potential corrosion or condensation issues, even if it always gets up to full oil temperature when it is used. As I understand dino oil is superior to syn for corrosion protection, Im seriously thinking of switching to havoline with LC from my current choice of GC with LC... and if I change it 2-3x/year instead of once, well, i get under the truck a bit more, and the oil gets changed... fun... but Ill only change if I can prove to myself that the dino will give better protection in the sitting condition that it sees... maybe gtx startup is another option... I just have to see...
JMH
Good point(s) ruking77. Not many operators are so sharp in record keeping and having some accuracy in gauging trip points to mark mileage performance.
Lubricant weight and type are PART of the picture as far as operating efficiency goes, as is getting higher mpg. Consider how long a tank fill lasts and just what has really been accomplished in those miles. Other considerations are the state of tune of the engine, tire rolling resistance and alignment, dragging brakes, Cf when travelling at higher speeds, excess vehicle weight, continual changes in speed, air density, temperatures, elevation changes, # of stops and starts, fuel quality, electrical loads, belt tension(s), etc. I bet most don't give all this a moments thought.
As far as OCI's, the masses probably never heard of oil sampling to determine appropriate oil use (people are just going to follow the owner's manual, the 3k/3m recommendation that's been hammered into one's head, or...). Convenience appears to be a driving force of the economy, unfortunately at the cost of increased use of energy/raw resources. Like every conversion that occurs in energy suffers a loss, so to does the change of hands or application of duties in increasing transactions appear to represent a healthy economy, for such would require like number of financial transactions however at the expense of further resource consumption (especially in manufacture/transport). It would seem we are presenting ourselves with a problem greatly of our own doing, however without conscious awareness and in a complex round-about way.
Sorry for straying from the topic.
Lubricant weight and type are PART of the picture as far as operating efficiency goes, as is getting higher mpg. Consider how long a tank fill lasts and just what has really been accomplished in those miles. Other considerations are the state of tune of the engine, tire rolling resistance and alignment, dragging brakes, Cf when travelling at higher speeds, excess vehicle weight, continual changes in speed, air density, temperatures, elevation changes, # of stops and starts, fuel quality, electrical loads, belt tension(s), etc. I bet most don't give all this a moments thought.
As far as OCI's, the masses probably never heard of oil sampling to determine appropriate oil use (people are just going to follow the owner's manual, the 3k/3m recommendation that's been hammered into one's head, or...). Convenience appears to be a driving force of the economy, unfortunately at the cost of increased use of energy/raw resources. Like every conversion that occurs in energy suffers a loss, so to does the change of hands or application of duties in increasing transactions appear to represent a healthy economy, for such would require like number of financial transactions however at the expense of further resource consumption (especially in manufacture/transport). It would seem we are presenting ourselves with a problem greatly of our own doing, however without conscious awareness and in a complex round-about way.
Sorry for straying from the topic.
On cars that sit for days/weeks I believe that syn oils offer benefits that well justify their costs. Correct me if that is mis-stated, but don't synthetics cling better and offer cold start protection just a little better? I apologize if that is a misnomer, but is what I have believed for 2o years (and paid extra to follow). I read the 85% of wear is in the first 5 minutes of cold start engines, this is what I have since believed.
I am a newbie here, but am in the oil business (refinery worker 25 years) and understand all lube oil is better now, than before. But a local oil ME told me years back that a blend (syn/dino) gives benefits well beyond just dino. I use more syn oils now, but believe the difference is less as refineries improve the refining process.
I am a newbie here, but am in the oil business (refinery worker 25 years) and understand all lube oil is better now, than before. But a local oil ME told me years back that a blend (syn/dino) gives benefits well beyond just dino. I use more syn oils now, but believe the difference is less as refineries improve the refining process.
I am done buying full syn. Partially because I need to use my stash of MaxLife and Durablend and my wife's van spec's 5w-20.
I actually need to sell/return some of my M1 EP.
I actually need to sell/return some of my M1 EP.
I'm moving sort of in that direction. My goal is to buy the best oil I can for about $2.00 a quart.
On my 03 Escape, the last oil change was Mobil 7500. On the Contour SVT, I have stocked up on Pennziol Platinum (and Quaker State Synthetic) when it was $1.99 a quart and again when it was $1.19 a quart. The Contour has also recently had Max Life full synthetic when Auto Zone had an un-advertised special at $2.00 a quart and I found enough for two oil changes.
I have long advocated that for the most part full synthetic was overkill, especially if you are not pushing long oil change intervals. This is especially true with the latest iteration of GF-4. The gap in performance between dino oil and full synthetic has greatly narrowed from what it was a decade ago.
On my 03 Escape, the last oil change was Mobil 7500. On the Contour SVT, I have stocked up on Pennziol Platinum (and Quaker State Synthetic) when it was $1.99 a quart and again when it was $1.19 a quart. The Contour has also recently had Max Life full synthetic when Auto Zone had an un-advertised special at $2.00 a quart and I found enough for two oil changes.
I have long advocated that for the most part full synthetic was overkill, especially if you are not pushing long oil change intervals. This is especially true with the latest iteration of GF-4. The gap in performance between dino oil and full synthetic has greatly narrowed from what it was a decade ago.
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