Another motorcraft failure

[Job]

Originally Posted by PWMDMD
Originally Posted by Farnsworth
My bread wasn't made by Costco just as Ford doesn't make MC filters. What are they supposed to do, cut open each one and weld it back together. Should Costco open each loaf and go through the slices? Now if a Ford factory made the filters it is a different story. This one is for the other talk about my bread analogy not yours.


I don't know....as a business owner I use a lot of materials and products from other manufactures. If my work was failing due to a problem with some material/product I purchased you can bet I'd be all over that in a heartbeat. My customers will be looking at me for an explanation and fix/restitution and not the manufactures who supply me with the materials/products. I sold it so the buck stops with me....and it should since I take pride in my work and it is part of my job to source reliable materials/products.



The remedy is to take the product back and return it to the vendor. If the vendor doesn't get better you change to another. Sounds like you make things, not buy from a wholesaler and put on the shelf retail. That is not what I was talking about. Finished products in packages.
If Ford actually gets a report in the right hands and with right info of this tearing, like you, you better believe they will be all over the supplier.

It's actually sort of ridiculous to even argue this, every store has defective products being returned every day. I don't know anyone who blames the store.

 

[Job]

Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by Farnsworth
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by Farnsworth
I don't own a Ford but will definitely look at them if ever I need another car. According to what has already been said, Ford issued the TSB not on their own oil filters. If Ford "execs" knew about these new tears after the UScar 36 update they will be all over it pronto with Purolator. They don't make the filters they buy them from Purolator. There is nothing to hide.


The statement in red never happened since more tears have occurred since Ford's adoption of USCAR-36.

A few guys here emailed Motorcraft reporting torn filters, and they said they never heard anything back. Just crickets like the way Purolator addressed the situation.


They will be all over it is in the future. Knew should be know, what is this grammar class? Have no idea what you are talking about it never happened because it is in the future. IF they find out my opinion is they will be all over it since they are buying the filters.

My bread wasn't made by Costco just as Ford doesn't make MC filters. What are they supposed to do, cut open each one and weld it back together. Should Costco open each loaf and go through the slices? Now if a Ford factory made the filters it is a different story. This one is for the other talk about my bread analogy not yours.


"Knew" or "Know" ... it doesn't really matter if was then or now. Motorcraft (therefore Ford) was alerted of tearing Purolator made Motorcraft filters years ago by members here, and who knows who else beyond BITOG. So they "knew" then, and they "know" now. They should be monitoring their products. Just like in a thread linked to an old response from Fram to a BITOG member saying Fram cuts open used filters off of cars to see how they held up. Just like guys here cut and post their findings.

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted by Farnsworth
It's actually sort of ridiculous to even argue this, every store has defective products being returned every day. I don't know anyone who blames the store.

Who exactly is blaming the store here? If I bought the Motorcraft filter at Autozone, am I blaming Autozone? No, I'm blaming the supplier who has their name on the product. Does it say Autozone on the filter? No, it says Motorcraft and/or Ford.

But I know you already know this.

 

[JohnnyJohnson]

Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by Farnsworth
I don't own a Ford but will definitely look at them if ever I need another car. According to what has already been said, Ford issued the TSB not on their own oil filters. If Ford "execs" knew about these new tears after the UScar 36 update they will be all over it pronto with Purolator. They don't make the filters they buy them from Purolator. There is nothing to hide.


The statement in red never happened since more tears have occurred since Ford's adoption of USCAR-36.

A few guys here emailed Motorcraft reporting torn filters, and they said they never heard anything back. Just crickets like the way Purolator addressed the situation.


Because the number of people who contacted them was only 1 or 2 % at best. Probably 90% of the people get the oil changed at the Stealership or the Oil change store. Those folks never check filters for fails. If it wasn't for sites like BITOG our insight would not even exist.

 

[PWMDMD]

Originally Posted by Farnsworth
It's actually sort of ridiculous to even argue this, every store has defective products being returned every day. I don't know anyone who blames the store.


No one is blaming the store...I'm blaming the manufacturer. It makes no difference that Ford contracts the actual manufacturing of filters out to someone else - Ford puts their name on them and sells them and if they are causing problems with Ford vehicles then Ford needs to correct the issue. Could you imagine the transmission on my 2018 Honda Pilot failing with 5000 miles on it and taking it into Honda and they look at me and say, "Sorry, ZF made that transmission. You'll have to take it up with them."?

 

[Job]

Ford should take up the issue as Honda would with a ZF transmission. But I can't blame Honda if they take a ZF out of a crate , install it, passes tests, and it's defective later on. Not their fault.
If I lose my cat, and ask the neighbor if he has seen it, I don't say oh well. I look for the cat. Same as this, if other people sent messages to Ford, it won't stop me from trying again if I need to..

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted by Farnsworth
Ford should take up the issue as Honda would with a ZF transmission. But I can't blame Honda if they take a ZF out of a crate , install it, passes tests, and it's defective later on. Not their fault.
If I lose my cat, and ask the neighbor if he has seen it, I don't say oh well. I look for the cat. Same as this, if other people sent messages to Ford, it won't stop me from trying again if I need to..

What?

 

[PWMDMD]

Originally Posted by Farnsworth
Ford should take up the issue as Honda would with a ZF transmission. But I can't blame Honda if they take a ZF out of a crate , install it, passes tests, and it's defective later on. Not their fault.
If I lose my cat, and ask the neighbor if he has seen it, I don't say oh well. I look for the cat. Same as this, if other people sent messages to Ford, it won't stop me from trying again if I need to..


How about if Honda knows there's a problem with the ZF transmission but continues to use them anyway? That's what we're talking about here. Ford had to issue a TSB years ago for a problem caused by torn filter media and that problem is still apparently an issue. I'm not surprised Ford has done nothing - that's consistent with their reliability issues and recent published stories about the DCT and paint issues but it still doesn't make it right and it's not a big trust builder. What else are they ignoring until it only makes sense to do the right thing from a purely financial POV?

BTW...I don't think there's anything particularly egregious about Ford vs many other large companies but certainly not a best in the business manufacturing philosophy.

 

[tig1]

A friend had the VVT problem in his Ford F150 and the local Ford dealer said fibers from the Fram was the big culprit for them.

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted by tig1
A friend had the VVT problem in his Ford F150 and the local Ford dealer said fibers from the Fram was the big culprit for them.

No doubt they said it was the cause of some paint bubbles on the door as well.

Watch the censor there!

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted by Farnsworth
Ford should take up the issue as Honda would with a ZF transmission. But I can't blame Honda if they take a ZF out of a crate , install it, passes tests, and it's defective later on. Not their fault.


The "tests" that Honda would do in this case is make sure the vehicle drives out the end of the factory, and that's it. All of the development and qualification testing was done by the transmission maker, ZF.

That's why companies are supposed to have continual quality checks and tests when they are cranking out millions of copies. In the case of Motorcraft filters, Ford should be doing their own checks to ensure their supplier (Purolator) is adhering to the manufacturing and quality requirements that Ford laid out in their supplier contract. Like said before, Fram said their engineers routinely inspect (ie, cut open) filters that are actually used on everyday vehicles and look for issues - just like we do here. Purolator isn't going to do that unless Ford specifically has paid them as part of the supplier contact to do so. If Purolator doesn't do that, then Ford/Motorcraft should.

Any manufacturer who designs and qualifies only a couple of manufactured examples of their products is likely to get in trouble down the road if they just forget about the product after the initial qualification testing.

 

[PWMDMD]

Now what's interesting is there were problems with the ZF 9-speed that Honda put into their vehicles. One issue was a problem with the transmission cooler failing (those were redesigned and replaced as needed) and the other was drivability and that was dealt with through reprogramming the ECU and eventually with a small redesign of the 9-speed (I think 2019's and up got this). So even though ZF made it....Honda had to work with ZF to fix it. This is not any different than Ford needing to work with Purolator to fix filter problems.

 

[mpgo4th]

I've been happy using Hastings and Napa gold on my Fords for years. Today I cut open a Hastings LF655 which is the filter cross for the FL910S. The center tube wasn't glued to the base plate on one side. The filter media was still glued securely but looking onto the filter tube, you can clearly see the media through a gap in the tube. I don't know if it even matters to performance but it's sad that one filter I've never had any issue with shows a flaw. Who knows what to use these days. You can't count on any manufacturer.

 

[JustinH]

Interesting.

The Motorcraft FL920s is $3.98 at Walmart, and the Supertech is $2.98.

Would the supertech be a better filter for 5k runs? Wix is the manufacturer for the new supertech filters correct?

 

[RazorsEdge]

I've used nothing but FL- 820S oil filters on our 96' Crown Victoria which now has over 330,000 miles and have had no issues.

 

[CR94]

Originally Posted by mpgo4th
... Today I cut open a Hastings LF655 which is the filter cross for the FL910S. The center tube wasn't glued to the base plate on one side. The filter media was still glued securely but looking onto the filter tube, you can clearly see the media through a gap in the tube. I don't know if it even matters to performance ...
It doesn't. We've been through that one at length before.

 

[Job]

Originally Posted by PWMDMD
Originally Posted by Farnsworth
It's actually sort of ridiculous to even argue this, every store has defective products being returned every day. I don't know anyone who blames the store.


No one is blaming the store...I'm blaming the manufacturer. It makes no difference that Ford contracts the actual manufacturing of filters out to someone else - Ford puts their name on them and sells them and if they are causing problems with Ford vehicles then Ford needs to correct the issue. Could you imagine the transmission on my 2018 Honda Pilot failing with 5000 miles on it and taking it into Honda and they look at me and say, "Sorry, ZF made that transmission. You'll have to take it up with them."?


Ford doesn't manufacture the filter. Lots of products have house brand names. The defects are the fault of the manufacturer not the store. The store warranties, and from what HD clerks told me they return defects to the vendor or discard. The vendor gets dinged. Honda warrants the ZF, and if one is factory defective, you can be sure ZF gets dinged not Honda. No one is saying Honda will say take it up with ZF.
Mobil1 filters I believe do say contact Champ Labs even though it is a Mobil 1 brand.

 

[PWMDMD]

Originally Posted by Farnsworth
Originally Posted by PWMDMD
Originally Posted by Farnsworth
It's actually sort of ridiculous to even argue this, every store has defective products being returned every day. I don't know anyone who blames the store.


No one is blaming the store...I'm blaming the manufacturer. It makes no difference that Ford contracts the actual manufacturing of filters out to someone else - Ford puts their name on them and sells them and if they are causing problems with Ford vehicles then Ford needs to correct the issue. Could you imagine the transmission on my 2018 Honda Pilot failing with 5000 miles on it and taking it into Honda and they look at me and say, "Sorry, ZF made that transmission. You'll have to take it up with them."?


Ford doesn't manufacture the filter. Lots of products have house brand names. The defects are the fault of the manufacturer not the store. The store warranties, and from what HD clerks told me they return defects to the vendor or discard. The vendor gets dinged. Honda warrants the ZF, and if one is factory defective, you can be sure ZF gets dinged not Honda. No one is saying Honda will say take it up with ZF.
Mobil1 filters I believe do say contact Champ Labs even though it is a Mobil 1 brand.


I can't tell if you're being intensionally obtuse or not? Fine, you're correct...Ford/Motorcraft branded parts have absolutely nothing to do with Ford and Ford has no responsibility in testing, maintaining or managing their quality or specs. Sure, makes perfect sense to me....

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted by Farnsworth
Ford doesn't manufacture the filter. Lots of products have house brand names. The defects are the fault of the manufacturer not the store. The store warranties, and from what HD clerks told me they return defects to the vendor or discard. The vendor gets dinged. Honda warrants the ZF, and if one is factory defective, you can be sure ZF gets dinged not Honda. No one is saying Honda will say take it up with ZF.
Mobil1 filters I believe do say contact Champ Labs even though it is a Mobil 1 brand.


So in the case of tearing Motorcraft filters made by Purolator, who do you think is responsible, and what do you think the chain of command is to make things right?

 

[PWMDMD]

Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by Farnsworth
Ford doesn't manufacture the filter. Lots of products have house brand names. The defects are the fault of the manufacturer not the store. The store warranties, and from what HD clerks told me they return defects to the vendor or discard. The vendor gets dinged. Honda warrants the ZF, and if one is factory defective, you can be sure ZF gets dinged not Honda. No one is saying Honda will say take it up with ZF.
Mobil1 filters I believe do say contact Champ Labs even though it is a Mobil 1 brand.


So in the case of tearing Motorcraft filters made by Purolator, who do you think is responsible, and what do you think the chain of command is to make things right?


As best I can tell based on all the past responses, and please correct me if I'm putting the wrong words in your mouth, Farnsworth, but since Ford does not actually manufacture the Ford/MC filters Ford's only responsibility is to "ding" Purolator and the problem never gets fixed and it goes on forever and ever because it's Purolator's problem.