Another dagger in GM

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I'm a BowTie guy. However...IMHO...GM must crash and burn and reinvent itself without the union...Toyota has the significant advantage....the new Toyota truck plant is being built here in San Antonio...lines for those $12 and hour jobs wrap around the city 4 times.....same job at GM pays 3 times that with all the benefits loaded in....no wonder GM cannot compete financially with Toyota...the union is killing them....from a quality perspective....GM cars these days are 2nd to none....great quality and dependability.....kill the union...and GM will post some great numbers....and I would be totally remiss if I failed to mention a few in senior management need a good butt kicking...they need to streamline their product offering....consolidate/standerdize chassis and power trains.....roll out the 08 Camaro and GTO and lets get this party started...
 
quote:

Originally posted by obbop:


4. For years Toyota has scored quite low on various ratings/surveys in regards to customer satisfaction towards dealerships. Yet, Toyota just keeps on akin to that battery rabbit.... they just keep on selling and selling and selling.....


I considered buying a toyota once, I went to three different dealerships. Was treated like extreme piece of crap at two. The third was an attitude of indifference. My last three vehicles have all been Fords. I can say Ford has my repeat business because of the quality of their products. I will never consider a Toyota purchase ever. You can lump Nissan in with toyota. Only Japanese vechicles I would consider is Mitsubishi or Mazda. I think I'll stick with Ford though, they have taken care of me.

I think GM will pull through. It may require bankruptcy if the union is unwilling to make concessions. If it does go to bankruptcy you will see more stuff move across the border to Mexico.

As far as the original post. The 2 billion is not that big of a deal. It has more to do with revising earlier estimates and not so much to do with fraudulent errors. Some of their financial statements from earlier periods are under review and this is where the true story is. It appears there have been some agregious errors noted on these.
 
But what wavinwayne presents is true; even if written in immature verse..

GMs problems may have began 40 years ago; only the management then was too dense to notice it. Maybe their boardroom consisted of too many wealthy old men,whose last original thoughts dated back to he days of Sloan and Durant..
 
quote:

Originally posted by Alan:
I just think it's crazy they made a 2 BILLION dollar error.

Yeah, 2 Billion dollar error? How do you make a 2 Billion (Billion with a B and a whole lot of zeros!) dollar error?
 
quote:

Originally posted by AstroVic:
That's hilarious, WavinWayne! I think you hit the nail on the head!

The fact of the matter is, GM/Ford/Chrysler are all making excellent cars and trucks these days. There are always going to be some problems here and there, but nothing more or less than the Japanese manufacturers.

Reputation (good and bad) from the 80's is what's keeping the Japanese manufacturers afloat the the domestic ones under water.

Personally, I buy American made and American owned products anytime possible. And, no, I'm not ignorant to the fact that some Hondas are made in America, some Chevrolets are made in Mexico, and some Fords are made in Canada. Nor am I ignorant to the global economy.

I simply choose to make a dedicated effort to buy American-made products from American-owned companies in as many instances as possible.

Call me crazy.


My last two vehicles, a 91 S-10 and a 95 Dakota, both exceeded 150,000 miles in fine shape. The S-10 was much easier to maintain. Were they made in Mexico?
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I drove a couple US made cars, they were alright...

But when I drove the Corolla I bought, I knew, between it being made in the US by US workers in California, knowing the company was financially sound, it wasn't in constant persuit of the almighty dollar (and ever higher share prices!), it was commited to new technology and increased fuel economy...basically, even if it was a 'foreign' company, I agreed with their 'way'.

I'm up in the air regarding unions. If I come out and say that unions can be greedy, let me also say that owners, shareholders and the rich are easily ten times worse, and one evil begats another...

I don't think US manufacturers really caught up until just the past five or six years...until the polished the Neon and Focus so that they ran without blowing up or catching on fire...
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[ March 18, 2006, 12:26 AM: Message edited by: GarrettSocling ]
 
That's hilarious, WavinWayne! I think you hit the nail on the head!

The fact of the matter is, GM/Ford/Chrysler are all making excellent cars and trucks these days. There are always going to be some problems here and there, but nothing more or less than the Japanese manufacturers.

Reputation (good and bad) from the 80's is what's keeping the Japanese manufacturers afloat the the domestic ones under water.

Personally, I buy American made and American owned products anytime possible. And, no, I'm not ignorant to the fact that some Hondas are made in America, some Chevrolets are made in Mexico, and some Fords are made in Canada. Nor am I ignorant to the global economy.

I simply choose to make a dedicated effort to buy American-made products from American-owned companies in as many instances as possible.

Call me crazy.
 
Just so we're clear, I did not say that I agreed with the statements in my first post. It's just the direction I expected this thread to take.

Heck, I make my living working (indirectly) for GM.
 
I guess I'm a bit confused. GM, Ford, Toyota, Honda, etc are all publicly held companies. What difference does it make if Toyota steals GMs market share as long as the majority of cars sold here are made here??? Oh wait... gov't bail out of the pension plans... okay I'll shut up now....

~Sail

Wait till the Chinese cars get here... even the $22/hr S. Korean workers are nervous.
 
quote:

Originally posted by earthworm:
But what wavinwayne presents is true; even if written in immature verse..

GMs problems may have began 40 years ago; only the management then was too dense to notice it. Maybe their boardroom consisted of too many wealthy old men,whose last original thoughts dated back to he days of Sloan and Durant..


Actually, it started 60 some odd years ago when they did not get IMMEDIATELY into Japan after the War. They made the BIG mistake of thinking the Nippons were weak and powerless. They probably also thought (although correctly at the time) that NO Americans would EVER buy a vehicle produced in Japan. My, how things have changed. Think of the advantage Japanese automakers have had over this time period (few ever bring this up). They did/do not have to pay out all of that medical ins./pension/early retirement/etc. that GM has had to for 75+ years!!!! Not to mention few if any unions to deal with. You know, even if the brainwashed American consumerist public percieved GM's (and other US automakers) products to be as good as (or better than, which believe it or not, some ARE , more often than not for less $$) Japan's, GM (and others) would still be facing a 90 degree inclined playing field!!

As for me, I will walk (or ride my very good AMERICAN built frame bicycle) where I have to go before I will ever own/drive a car from a Japanese owned company.
patriot.gif
Same goes for anyone's hybrid or electric. Double extra heavy duty 10 layer flame suit fully on!!!!!!!
 
quote:

Originally posted by AstroVic:
That's hilarious, WavinWayne! I think you hit the nail on the head!

The fact of the matter is, GM/Ford/Chrysler are all making excellent cars and trucks these days. There are always going to be some problems here and there, but nothing more or less than the Japanese manufacturers.

Reputation (good and bad) from the 80's is what's keeping the Japanese manufacturers afloat the the domestic ones under water.

Personally, I buy American made and American owned products anytime possible. And, no, I'm not ignorant to the fact that some Hondas are made in America, some Chevrolets are made in Mexico, and some Fords are made in Canada. Nor am I ignorant to the global economy.

I simply choose to make a dedicated effort to buy American-made products from American-owned companies in as many instances as possible.

Call me crazy.


I don't think you're crazy. I try to buy what works. I will buy another Toyota Avalon to replace the '96 Avalon w/185,000 miles that we now have. We bought the '96 because my wife liked the styling. We will buy an '06 because of the reliability of the '96 (hope I can keep all these 6's straight!). I also drive a '98 Ford F150. Since I only put6000-7000 miles a year on it, I'll probably keep it another 6-10 years if it runs that long. No major problems. Just little inconveniences, like the doors won't unlock with the key from outside. Had that fixed twice, and it is acting up again. I had thought of a Toyota Tacoma to replace the truck, but thought better of it when I saw the sticker price. More than a standard Avalon. GM and Ford products are much better than they were 20 years ago. GM management and union attitudes are not!

John
 
wavinwayne,

I'm getting more and more proud of you every day.
cheers.gif


You may only be 5'7", but you stand 10' tall in my book of sarcastic humor and intellectual stimuli.
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"I've read that between 1 in 7 and 1 in 9 US jobs are tied to GM directly or indirectly."

I believe that's 1 in 10 jobs are somehow tied to the auto industry, not to GM. Fear not, when GM and Ford tank and re-emerge from receivership, US Honda, US Toyota, US Kia, et al, will march in and take their place somewhat..until the Chinese sell their cars through WalMart, then everyone's gone. Chrysler, because of Daimler's management (not theirs), may be stronger than ever in future.

Studebaker, DeSoto, Cord (sp?), etc. etc. came and went, and we still are here.
 
I agree, the new cars that Pontiac and Ford have look promising. As for Chinese... I'm just scared about stuff like that. Buy a car for $4,000 new! 10,000 mile warranty. 20mpg! .5 star crash rating!

Well, we'll just have to see I guess. AutoWeek showed some Chinese cars and they look worse than Toyota...
 
The "dagger" in GM is similar to the one used in Japanese Samuri lore for suicide. GM is killiing itself by it's own actions/lack of action.
 
My neighbor has an 05 Chevy car (I forget the model). The thing started shocking the heck out of him through the door as he would get out of the car. All the lights on the dash would light up.

GM stealerships (3 different ones) told him he was crazy. "No problems, car is perfect."

He took it to a local independent shop. The mechanic determined it was a faulty radio installed in Detroit by a UAW drone. $1200 for a new (GM) radio.

GM sucks and blows at the same time. GM should be put down like the sick dog it is.
 
Problem is if GM goes bust, the foreign transplants will not provide anywhere near the jobs that GM did. Like it or not, we ALL may be affected by this. It wouldn't hurt my feelings if the import lovers/American industry haters lost their jobs first.
 
Even if the foreign U.S. plants remain largely non-union, I think the UAW will remain profitable as they started to diversify awhile ago. Here's a quote from Wiki on the UAW:

"In the 1990s, the UAW began to focus on new areas of organizing both geographically -- in places like Puerto Rico -- and in terms of occupations, with new initiatives among university staff, freelance writers (through the subsidiary National Writers Union) and employees of non-profit organizations. And, since the 1980s the UAW is also taking on the organization of academic student employees (aka "ASEs") -- typically Teaching Assistants, Research Assistants, Graders, Tutors -- under the slogan "Uniting Academic Workers". As of 2004, the UAW represents more ASEs than any other Union in the United States. Universities with UAW ASE representation include the University of California, California State University, University of Massachusetts, University of Washington, and New York University."
 
Guys, please tell me what I am missing here. I keep hearing how GM is now top notch with regards to quality. The newest GM car in my family is 2004 Impala. This thing is freaking joke. The front suspension is under sprung and the wheel travel exceeds the mechanical limits of the componentry allowing it to hit the bump stops even at parking lot speeds. The dash board is a fisher-price play toy with paint flaking and controls on the steering wheel working when they feel like it. The door panels don't even have close-out caps on the fasteners inside the handle area. And the door hinges are the same old undersized things they've used for 30 years or more. The drivers door will sag within 4 years of use. Which reminds me that the drivers seat is quickly becoming collapsed.

Sure, the car has never failed to start but holy cow it is a crude means of transportation. I do have to admit that it was dirt cheap to purchase. The car belongs to my father and his standards are akin to a Harley Davidson riders... if the thing starts he's happy.

As for the wages being offered at the Toyota plant in Texas,, maybe those guys should head to Georgia. Kia published in the newspaper that the average wage in their new factory was going to $51,750 per year for the line workers based on a 2080 hour work year. That is a hourly wage of $24.88 which isn't bad by any standard.
 
Fowvay, you will get more life out of your door hinges if you use spray lube every 6 months or so. If you wear them out, it is a fairly easy fix with either new hinges or the pin/bushing kit. Also, I had the sagging seat problem in my Cavalier and corrected it with extra springs (double up the springs) I got out of a junkyard seat. Just make sure the suspension isn't cutting into the seat. GM likes to keep their designs around for a while. I believe it's the little problems that people remember and get mad at GM for. If they corrected these GM would be second to none.
 
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