Outsourcing vs In-sourcing !

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Just found out that Chevy Bolt was designed in South Korean on top of using power train and battery pack designed/engineered by LG(a South Korean company). Not only South Korean designed the Bolt they also designed these vehicles for GM: Sonic, Cruze, and Spark. Of course these vehicles used many South Korean parts. Some foreign car companies such as Honda has most vehicles sold in North America designed/engineered right here in North America(US + Canada + Mexico). Even the most advance and expensive NSX(from Honda) was totally designed/engineered and tested in Ohio by American. US tax payers spent $50 Billion to bail out GM and lost $11 Billion after we got back $39 Billion, in return GM outsourcing high paying jobs to oversea. Honda, Toyota, BMW, MB ... didn't need any government money and they actually expand their design centers, manufacture plants ... in US to design and produce more vehicles here instead at their homelands.
Quote:
The Bolt was designed at GM's South Korea design studio, which has about 190 employees working on 10 vehicle projects. The studio, which is also responsible for the Sonic, Cruze, and Spark, is the automaker's third-largest in the world behind its US and Europe studios.
http://www.autoblog.com/2016/08/10/chevy-bolts-aero-disaster-but-big-inside/
Quote:
The total cost of the government's bailout for General Motors has come to $11.2 billion after the Treasury sold the last of its assets in December The $11.2-billion loss includes a $826-million write-off in March from government investments in the “Old GM” before the company’s 2009 bankruptcy, the report said. The U.S. government spent $49.5 billion to bail out GM, and after the company’s bankruptcy in 2009, the government’s investment was converted to a 61 percent equity stake in the company. The Treasury gradually sold off its stock in GM, selling its last shares in December 2013.
http://time.com/82953/general-motors-bailout-cost-taxpayers-11-2-billion/
 
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
Just found out that Chevy Bolt was designed in South Korean on top of using power train and battery pack designed/engineered by LG(a South Korean company). Not only South Korean designed the Bolt they also designed these vehicles for GM: Sonic, Cruze, and Spark. Of course these vehicles used many South Korean parts. Some foreign car companies such as Honda has most vehicles sold in North America designed/engineered right here in North America(US + Canada + Mexico). Even the most advance and expensive NSX(from Honda) was totally designed/engineered and tested in Ohio by American. US tax payers spent $50 Billion to bail out GM and lost $11 Billion after we got back $39 Billion, in return GM outsourcing high paying jobs to oversea. Honda, Toyota, BMW, MB ... didn't need any government money and they actually expand their design centers, manufacture plants ... in US to design and produce more vehicles here instead at their homelands.
Quote:
The Bolt was designed at GM's South Korea design studio, which has about 190 employees working on 10 vehicle projects. The studio, which is also responsible for the Sonic, Cruze, and Spark, is the automaker's third-largest in the world behind its US and Europe studios.
http://www.autoblog.com/2016/08/10/chevy-bolts-aero-disaster-but-big-inside/
Quote:
The total cost of the government's bailout for General Motors has come to $11.2 billion after the Treasury sold the last of its assets in December The $11.2-billion loss includes a $826-million write-off in March from government investments in the “Old GM” before the company’s 2009 bankruptcy, the report said. The U.S. government spent $49.5 billion to bail out GM, and after the company’s bankruptcy in 2009, the government’s investment was converted to a 61 percent equity stake in the company. The Treasury gradually sold off its stock in GM, selling its last shares in December 2013.
http://time.com/82953/general-motors-bailout-cost-taxpayers-11-2-billion/
It is free money !
 
Gm, ford could not design a competitive small vehicle. The best thing they did is import designs from euro Focus, fiesta and euro Cruze, spark etc. Before that not even competitive so they tried on price.
 
Those are relatively small amounts compared to the $TRILLIONS of dollars the US FED/USGovt handed out during the last financial crisis to major banks, various large corporations, and even individuals around the globe. Most of that was just paid out....no loans.
 
You are outraged at only a small piece of the picture. The bailouts themselves were for big banks who had undocumented liabilities (dark pools) who also took advantage of fear and mass panic. That is the bigger story. Its mildly interesting that GM has been very successful by outsourcing their small cars and created good products to boot. You should be more outraged that lazy americans couldn't compete.
 
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Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
Just found out that Chevy Bolt was designed in South Korean on top of using power train and battery pack designed/engineered by LG(a South Korean company). Not only South Korean designed the Bolt they also designed these vehicles for GM: Sonic, Cruze, and Spark. Of course these vehicles used many South Korean parts. Some foreign car companies such as Honda has most vehicles sold in North America designed/engineered right here in North America(US + Canada + Mexico). Even the most advance and expensive NSX(from Honda) was totally designed/engineered and tested in Ohio by American. US tax payers spent $50 Billion to bail out GM and lost $11 Billion after we got back $39 Billion, in return GM outsourcing high paying jobs to oversea.
GM has many subsidiaries in countries outside the US...I know that you've stated that you don't care that there are countries outside the US, but there are. During the GFC, GM told those subsidiaries that they were entirely on their own...sink or swim, the mother company isn't helping (well at least that's what they told Holden). In those countries, THEY employ people who are smart, savvy, and as up to speed with their technology as anyone, so why not use them for their niches. Aus (there's a map somewhere showing it) generated the G8, Camaro, and Caprice police cruiser, all teh while losing it's own GM car manufacturing facilities...they will still design, engineer, and test cars here...no US govt subsidies. While on topic... http://www.latimes.com/business/autos/la-fi-hy-tesla-panasonic-20160608-snap-story.html Good solid American names there...
 
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
Just found out that Chevy Bolt was designed in South Korean on top of using power train and battery pack designed/engineered by LG(a South Korean company). Not only South Korean designed the Bolt they also designed these vehicles for GM: Sonic, Cruze, and Spark.
Aren't these global vehicles/platforms? If so, what difference does it make where they are being designed? Getting a bailout does not automatically mean you can only operate/hire people in the US.
 
I'm not certain how "government" the Fed is. The Federal Reserve banks fall somewhere between public (government) and private institutions. Both government and the member banks have their people on the board. So I'm not sure that borrowing from the Fed is any sort of indication of federal giveaways to any company. And, the money is paid back, with whatever interest is the current going fed funds rate. The big difference here is in which companies did Uncle Sam buy stock? The answer is GM and Chrysler. There was a sweetheart deal, where Uncle Sam bought the stock, and bondholders of those companies were placed at the end of the line, not closer to the front of the line, where they would have been placed, had GM and Chrysler sought bankruptcy protections and reorganization. So those pension funds, and 401(k)s and IRAs that had those bonds took a greater loss than they would have if the traditional bankruptcy had taken place. So the UAW got a sweetheart deal, brokered by DC and people like you and me and our neighbors took a hit in our portfolios and pension funds.
 
Originally Posted By: Alfred_B
It's the Daewoo designers. What's the big deal about it?
Agree. Daewoo makes a heck of fine rifle. Daewoo DR200
 
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
Honda, Toyota, BMW, MB ... didn't need any government money and they actually expand their design centers, manufacture plants ... in US to design and produce more vehicles here instead at their homelands.
Hold on there skippy. I'm willing to bet that every major plant expansion involved at least local and state tax credits somewhere, so to poke your head in the sand and say that they "didn't need any government money" is disingenuous at best. Tax credits to encourage business expansion have been around since property taxes were enacted. While it's not a direct taxpayer subsidy, it is a way of reducing the tax burden on business and property owners (a good thing in my professional and political opinion). And before people start crying foul, the "little guys" get tax credits as well-in Iowa we have homestead, military, and several other tax credits that "little guy" homeowner can take advantage of. Most states have similar property tax credit structures. There's also added public infrastructure provided by taxpayer dollars when a new plant is built-again, indirect, but the benefit is for the new factory and it comes from taxpayer dollars. But it is made up on the back end when the plant comes up to full speed, is no longer receiving property tax credits, and is adding a large number of people who pay taxes.
 
those jobs had been outsourced LONG before the bailout. in the very early 2000's, Gm bought the automotive branch of South Korea's Daewoo Group. they company was re-branded as GM Daewoo, and in 2011, as simply GM Korea. (at the same time discontinuing the daewoo brand, whose models became Chevy's this is simply a continuation of GM's long time Practice of buying existing car makers in foreign lands - ie:Vauxhall in the UK, Opel in Germany, Holden in Australia, etc, and in the last 30 years, diversifying design and manufacture across the globe. for example, the Former Pontiac G8, and Currently the Chevy SS, and Caprice PPV, are really Holden Commodores, built in Australia, along side the ADM Comodores, and Shipped to the states. along with it's coupe version, the Manaro, built down under, and shipped and sold around the world as a Vauxhall(Manaro/VXR)in the UK, Chevy Lumina in South Africa/ Middle East, and the Pontiac GTO in the US. Fun Fact, these cars were developed at holden, originally based on a RWD design they borrowed from Opel(GM Germany/Europe)and modified for australia. we actually got that opel model(omega B) here in the states as the Cadillac Catera (tagline "the Caddy that Zigs") In Fact, by the time the Camaro was re introduced, GM had "moved" their entire RWD V8 passenger car program to Holden.(the first gen of the "new" Camaro was designed in Australia, by a south korean, and built in canada.(so much for the "american muscle car") if you're a Top Gear Fan, the Chevy Lacetti they used for the 2nd "Reasonably Priced Car"(between the Suzuki Liana, and the Kia Cee'Dee) was in reality a Daewoo Lacetti. Gm had simply rebranded all daewoo's for sale in Europe as Chevrolets. no many how many times they or the "stars" called it an "american piece of [censored]", it was a Korean car.(in fact the Astra Redline used in the final CHM Season was the first non Korean model they had used) - in the US this car was sold as the Suzuki Forenza/Reno, which was replaced buy the Chevy Cruze, which is...wait for it... a Lacetti. produced around the world though, including in Lordstown OH. many current Buick Models are in fact Opels. rambling rant over as train of thought has left me and i've fallen down the internet rabbit hole...
 
Originally Posted By: skyactiv
Ford, BMW and Toyota did take secret money from the U.S. government.
Speaking of Ford (and this all water under the proverbial bridge at this point), did they take a bailout or a loan? There is a difference. Everything I have read said they borrowed money and are in the process of repaying or have paid it back. They used the brand names of F-150 and Mustang (for example) as part of the collateral to secure the loan. GM took a bailout and a large part of it was written off, big difference.
 
Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
Honda, Toyota, BMW, MB ... didn't need any government money and they actually expand their design centers, manufacture plants ... in US to design and produce more vehicles here instead at their homelands.
Hold on there skippy. I'm willing to bet that every major plant expansion involved at least local and state tax credits somewhere, so to poke your head in the sand and say that they "didn't need any government money" is disingenuous at best. Tax credits to encourage business expansion have been around since property taxes were enacted. While it's not a direct taxpayer subsidy, it is a way of reducing the tax burden on business and property owners (a good thing in my professional and political opinion). And before people start crying foul, the "little guys" get tax credits as well-in Iowa we have homestead, military, and several other tax credits that "little guy" homeowner can take advantage of. Most states have similar property tax credit structures. There's also added public infrastructure provided by taxpayer dollars when a new plant is built-again, indirect, but the benefit is for the new factory and it comes from taxpayer dollars. But it is made up on the back end when the plant comes up to full speed, is no longer receiving property tax credits, and is adding a large number of people who pay taxes.
I didn't clearly made my point, what I mean was these foreign car companies didn't need federal Government bail out during the 2008-2009 crisis, while GM received $50 billion in bail out money from Federal government, and we got back less than $40 billion. I think you knew what I mean when I only talk about Federal Government bail out money, not state and local governments. Every large manufacture company do receive some incentives from state and local government(s) when they expand their plants and/or move their headquarters there, and this is not what I tried to convey my message in this thread. For GM bail out money, US taxpayers lost $11 billion and GM still outsourcing good paying jobs to oversea is not right. Why Honda shift more jobs into America while no money was given to them by Federal government, and American company doesn't want to keep jobs in America ? For someone who posted about American doesn't know how to design small cars, Honda designed/engineered/tested small cars in America, one of them is Civic and it is selling very well. If Honda can make Civic with American Designers/Engineers why not GM or Ford or Chrysler ? How many Honda vehicles currently on sale in North America are made in Japan or any country outside North America ? Didn't you guy see the dilemma ? A Japanese car company design/engineer/test/manufacture most vehicles for sale in North America using local labors, an American car company has their vehicles designed outside US and import it into America. It is okay to have plants outside US for local markets, example: GM has many plants with local Chinese companies to produce vehicles for Chinese market. BMW, MB, Toyota, Honda ... do the same, they teamed with local companies to produce vehicles for Chinese and Asian people. Do you know why Honda parent company in Japan decided to let Honda of America design the new NSX ? They could did it by themselves in Japan but they trust American designers/engineers enough to let them do it.
 
In California you can bypass all the politics and government interference based on who owns which politician by buying a pre 75 vehicle, a pickup for example, fix it up and drive it until you drop. It won't be popular. It won't be an airbagged environment capsule. The younger generations will think you're crazy because of all the absolute never do without necessities you don't have like computer controls, TPMS, OCM, and on and on and on, but you'll be the only one that knows for sure. You can step out of the rat race, ditch your smart phone and live your life.
 
Originally Posted By: madRiver
Gm, ford could not design a competitive small vehicle.
The Focus is the best-selling vehicle in the world, last time I checked at least...
 
Originally Posted By: Ethan1
Originally Posted By: madRiver
Gm, ford could not design a competitive small vehicle.
The Focus is the best-selling vehicle in the world, last time I checked at least...
The European-designed Focus. The last-generation one, designed in the US, wasn't such a great seller. IIRC these cars are just like anything else these days. Polyglots. Not saying it's bad/good, just that it is what it is.
 
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