Amsoil vs Valvoline

[SteveD2]

quote:

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Originally posted by Last_Z:
....
RedLine: Good for horsepower (lots of moly)
...
Thanks a lot, Rick[/QB]

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The moly additives in oil are for wear protection if you don't have good oil flow and a good oil film...when first starting, etc. (I'm oversimplifying). They work very well, there are other additives that do the same job, more moly is not better--the right amount is just right, and we are not speaking about MoS2 molybdenum disulfide, the gray powder.

Ken

 

[Last_Z]

Very good info guys!!

I have 2 more questions. I just swapped the dino oil (factory fill....car has 3800 miles) for M1 5W-30 on my wifes 03 corolla. I want to do 5000 miles oil changes with this car; can I go straight to this intervals or should I wait until my next change to clear up the oem dino? What engine is or was that would sludge up in toyotas??
Thanks a lot, Rick

 

[MolaKule]

"When the oil is changed at 3000 miles in a Toyota and no sludge appears but when that engine is run on Amsoil for 15,000 and sludge appears the answer is YES because AMSOIL said I could go 25,000 between changes. Further, even after they (Amsoil) knew the oil could not go beyond 7500 they refused to inform customers using Amsoil to change and not go beyond 7500. This would have injured their image and their maketing hype about 25,000 mile changes. "

Spector, I sort of playing devil's advocate here to show you some "jurisprudence" thinking.

Now, if the Toyota owner could not prove that he changed the filter at 12,000 miles and topped-off, then he would lose the case.

Now, while Amsoil denied responsibility and won, Toyota replaced engines anyway.

In that case, it seems to me that BOTH Amsoil and Toyota bear responsibility for failure and should share the costs.

a.) Amsoil for publishing those long drain intervals without any other qialifications except filter changes and top-off,
b.) Toyota for publishing longer than allowed drain intervals.

Had I been a juror, I would have placed blame on both parties, just MHO.

 

[Spector]

Your quote

"In that case, it seems to me that BOTH Amsoil and Toyota bear responsibility for failure and should share the costs.

a.) Amsoil for publishing those long drain intervals without any other qialifications except filter changes and top-off,
b.) Toyota for publishing longer than allowed drain intervals.

Had I been a juror, I would have placed blame on both parties, just MHO. "

Yea, I agree.Toyota needs to shorten the drain intervals in the manual (which it won't do for marketing reasons), and Amsoil needs to state that 25,000 miles is only possible if analysis is done etc.(which it won't do for marketing reasons) Carte blanche statements that one can go 25,000 is ludicrous. As with most things in life Buyer Beware-there are no guarantees.

Guess we don't need to rehash the Toyota sludge debate.

 

[Dick in Falls Church]

If the oil doesn't cause a problem, why should the maker/manufacturer/blender/seller pay for anything.
If you get coolant in the oil, that isn't an oil problem. If you get dirt in the oil (bad air filtration), that isn't an oil problem.
If the 3rd exhaust lobe on the cam of a Chevy wears prematurely (as it did on thousands of engines) and the other lobes are good, that isn't an oil problem.
If an oil company turns out batches of oil with the wrong additive package, and the stuff gels about freezing--that is an oil problem (Quaker State comes to mind)
If Toyota engines cause sludging because of the engine design, that's not an oil problem.
If the taillight burns out, or a rock goes through the windshield, that's not an oil problem.

If someone has a collectible car, and puts AMSOIL in it, and then files against AMSOIL because the cam is worn--could be a problem. However, when analysis of the oil showed NORMAL wear, obviously the wear occured before the AMSOIL was put it. Suit dropped---

When some cans were mislabelled, and plastic sight glasses in a plant shattered, AMSOIL did pay for replacement, line flushing, new fluid. (Kept the customer)

 

[Patman]

quote:

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Originally posted by Last_Z:
Very good info guys!!

I have 2 more questions. I just swapped the dino oil (factory fill....car has 3800 miles) for M1 5W-30 on my wifes 03 corolla. I want to do 5000 miles oil changes with this car; can I go straight to this intervals or should I wait until my next change to clear up the oem dino? What engine is or was that would sludge up in toyotas??
Thanks a lot, Rick

---

Rick, you are safe, it's the 3.0 V6 that sludges up the oil.

And you are also safe going straight to a 5k interval. If you wanted to go with longer intervals, then the first fill with that oil should be a lower 5k interval, then go to a slightly higher interval each time. For instance, my first interval with Schaeffer blend is going to be about 5k, then the second will be 7k, then I'm settling on 9k. It's always best to ease into longer intervals like this, while doing oil analysis to confirm things are well.

 

[SteveD2]

The sludging engines are 1997-2002 Toyota and Lexus vehicles with 3.0-liter IMZ V-6 engines and all 1997-2001 Toyota vehicles with 5SFE 2.2-liter 4-cylinder engines. I've not yet heard just what Toyota did in their last redesign of these engines that caused the problem.

Spector, let me disagree with your statement that Toyota needs to publish shorter ODIs for these engines. I feel that Toyota needs to modify these engines and produce all engines for longer ODIs.

Ken

 

[Spector]

quote:

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Originally posted by Ken:

Spector, let me disagree with your statement that Toyota needs to publish shorter ODIs for these engines. I feel that Toyota needs to modify these engines and produce all engines for longer ODIs.

Ken

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Either would be fine with me. They redesigned the PCV system I believe but according to Bob and others that was not the major cause of the oil breaking down. Time will tell if these engines continue to sludge.

 

[dragboat]

quote:

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Originally posted by Last_Z:
Very good info guys!!

I have 2 more questions. I just swapped the dino oil (factory fill....car has 3800 miles) for M1 5W-30 on my wifes 03 corolla. I want to do 5000 miles oil changes with this car; can I go straight to this intervals or should I wait until my next change to clear up the oem dino? What engine is or was that would sludge up in toyotas??
Thanks a lot, Rick

---

Rick if it were me I would use that oil as a purge and change it out a little early before a full 5k run after dino oil,the residual will affect the Mobil in the first run IMO.

I understand this is a new design engine in the Corrola,I hope it is a bit easier on oil than some of the other Toyota engines in recent past.

 

[Last_Z]

quote:

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Originally posted by dragboat:

quote:

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Originally posted by Last_Z:
Very good info guys!!

I have 2 more questions. I just swapped the dino oil (factory fill....car has 3800 miles) for M1 5W-30 on my wifes 03 corolla. I want to do 5000 miles oil changes with this car; can I go straight to this intervals or should I wait until my next change to clear up the oem dino? What engine is or was that would sludge up in toyotas??
Thanks a lot, Rick

---

Rick if it were me I would use that oil as a purge and change it out a little early before a full 5k run after dino oil,the residual will affect the Mobil in the first run IMO.

I understand this is a new design engine in the Corrola,I hope it is a bit easier on oil than some of the other Toyota engines in recent past.

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Ok then....4k it is.

 

[WeyounDS9]

Valvoline SynPower is NOT a group III oil, but a full synthtetic Poly Alpha Olefin (POA) oil.

I don't know how this group III thing keeps creeping up here.
There is simply no basis for it.

I emailed Ashland Chemical not once, but three times in the last 18 months and all times they specifically said the base oil is
PAO, group IV.
It's also in the FAQ section of their website.

Fred...

 

[Terry]

palmerwnd, check the latest msds for synpower and then tell us what you think. Or better yet post the CAS #'s and description of the base oils.

 

[dragboat]

Sorry to be the Grim Reaper here

Material Identity
Product Name: SYNPOWER 10W30 6/1 QT
General or Generic ID: SYNTHETIC LUBRICATING OIL

Company Telephone Numbers
The Valvoline Company Emergency: 1-800-274-5263
P.O. Box 14000
Lexington, KY 40512 Information: 1-859-357-7206

__________________________________________________________________________

2. COMPOSITION/INFORMATION ON INGREDIENTS

Ingredient(s) CAS Number % (by weight)
-------------------------------------------- ------------- -------------
HYDROTREATED HEAVY PARAFFINIC DISTILLATE (PE 64742-54-7 53.0- 63.0
ZINC COMPOUNDS 0.8- 1.6

 

[WeyounDS9]

They LIED !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! THEY LIED TO ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Fred...

[ November 02, 2002, 04:23 PM: Message edited by: palmerwmd ]

 

[Terry]

Thats why we have this board Fred. So many are duped , an informed consumer will demand a better product for the money.

Thats not to say Valvoline is not a fine product. Its just not what you or their underpaid techline answer people know it to be.

If we send our money to those who provide high quality goods and services the herd will improve theirs.

 

[WeyounDS9]

I will NEVER buy another Valvoline product again!

And I will make sure PPL will hear of this, I am a Moderator on another board and members have depended on me for accurate information and dependable recommendations.

They made me a liar, this is not something I will forgive.

I even organized meets for my club lately and had raffles with Valvoline products as prizes.
The grand Prize of our last meet, was a case of SynPower for the one who drove furthest (1100 miles round trip in this case)

Which I bought out of my own pocket as i did all other raffles!

At least one (and I suspect more) members have bought their oil based at least in part (if not wholly) on my recomendation...

I am an ACS certified and degreed chemist but I am defensel;ess against outright lying.

Or maybe they changed their formulation and "forgot" to tell their PR people and "forgot" to tell their webmaster.

Fred...

[ November 02, 2002, 05:50 PM: Message edited by: palmerwmd ]

 

[WeyounDS9]

Now I just have to figure out what to do with my last case of SynPower 5w-40,
I am in a good mind to throw it away!

Fred....

 

[VeeDubb]

quote:

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Originally posted by palmerwmd:
Now I just have to figure out what to do with my last case of SynPower 5w-40,
I am in a good mind to throw it away!

Fred....

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I'll take it.

Seriously though, I knew something with suspicious when I was on the FAQ section of the Valvoline website and somebody asked "Is Synpower Fully synethetic." and the response didn't mention anything about PAO. It looked like they were dodging the question.

 

[WeyounDS9]

It looked a bit evasive to me too.
But when on the FAQ the said "yes" to the question .
Is it a PAO or ester I firgured this was it.

Also I asked them pointblank over the "ask synpower" and theyy said it was PAO.

Not just with "yes its a synthetic" but I followed up when I got that answer, and they said: "Yes its 75-80% PAO"

Fred...

PS: I just asked them point black over that same "help line" I said it more politely but basically I asked them: "So who is lying the MSDS or you?"
I dont really excpect an answer...

[ November 02, 2002, 06:16 PM: Message edited by: palmerwmd ]

 

[Patman]

Valvoline ticked me off too. I started using Maxlife because it had a lot of moly in it, but then after my first oil analysis came back with no moly in it, I looked like this guy---

That's the big reason I went to Schaeffer oil, I know for sure they won't try and rip off their customers by doing a major reformulation and taking out the good stuff. Nothing's worse in the oil industry than a company reformulating and making the product worse. And putting in group 3 base oil instead of PAOs is a big step towards making it worse. They keep saying group 3 is just as good as PAOs, but I don't for a second believe it. No group 3 oil is going to be able to handle the long drain intervals of a PAO and/or ester based oil. Not a chance. And the main benefit of a synthetic is the longer drain interval ability. Another benefit of synthetics is the ability to flow very well in extreme cold, and group 3 oils also aren't very good in this respect. Many dino oils are just as good in extreme cold as these group 3 rip off oils.