Amsoil vs everyone else
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Originally Posted By: skyship
I really would be careful about the Amsoil 25K marketing hype, as they have provided no real evidence that their oil lasts any longer than other major brand fully synthetics and if you blow your engine up due to too long an OCI, I bet the fine print in the terms and conditions means they are not liable.
In general terms a fully synthetic oil might be OK for a 50% extension to the OCI of a dino oil, but contamination still effects both oil types, so the idea that Amsoil have of encouraging a 25K OCI is nuts, particularly for an older engine or one in severe service type use.
Extending a normal OCI is only safe if you are doing UOA at regular intervals to see what is happening.
Bull and mostly Bull....
If an engine goes south because of lube issues within the severe service OCI, Amsoil will replace the faulty componet. Not too many conditions (meaning perfect) service conditions apply, but if a UOA say's the oils perfectly good to go at the end of a severe service OCI then you can go on with Amsoils blessing. However, not too many 25K conditions are out there in the REAL world. Synthetic oils natural ability and additives fight(absorb) the contamination 6 or 7 fold better than conventional mineral oils. I will call (bravo) on your last line "Extending a normal OCI is only safe if you are doing UOA at regular intervals to see what is happening." I would say 10K,15, and then deceide on final drain interval...LCM
I really would be careful about the Amsoil 25K marketing hype, as they have provided no real evidence that their oil lasts any longer than other major brand fully synthetics and if you blow your engine up due to too long an OCI, I bet the fine print in the terms and conditions means they are not liable.
In general terms a fully synthetic oil might be OK for a 50% extension to the OCI of a dino oil, but contamination still effects both oil types, so the idea that Amsoil have of encouraging a 25K OCI is nuts, particularly for an older engine or one in severe service type use.
Extending a normal OCI is only safe if you are doing UOA at regular intervals to see what is happening.
Bull and mostly Bull....
If an engine goes south because of lube issues within the severe service OCI, Amsoil will replace the faulty componet. Not too many conditions (meaning perfect) service conditions apply, but if a UOA say's the oils perfectly good to go at the end of a severe service OCI then you can go on with Amsoils blessing. However, not too many 25K conditions are out there in the REAL world. Synthetic oils natural ability and additives fight(absorb) the contamination 6 or 7 fold better than conventional mineral oils. I will call (bravo) on your last line "Extending a normal OCI is only safe if you are doing UOA at regular intervals to see what is happening." I would say 10K,15, and then deceide on final drain interval...LCM
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Synthetic oils natural ability and additives fight(absorb) the contamination 6 or 7 fold better than conventional mineral oils.
Synthetic oil can not remove contamination, if wear metals, fuel or anti freeze contaminate an oil, there is no difference in the result in increased engine wear terms between a synthetic oil and a dinosaur one.
Although I use a genuine fully synthetic oil I would never suggest that my engine will last much longer than with a good dinosaur oil because I don't push the OCI boundaries.
If you look through some of the UOA based studies done of different oil types and brands, it is suprising how little difference there is, not only between the major brands but between dino and fully synthetic oils. The tests done by Amsoil are not based on real world UOA results and are only of minor interest.
Synthetic oils use very similar additives to many dino oils and in reality it is just a matter of add pack quality rather than the actual type of oil.
The Amsoil 25K warrenty is faily meaningless because you could run 25K OCI with any of the major brand fully synthetic oils without risking immediate major damage, but that does not mean the life of your engine would not be reduced by increased wear, however trying to prove that the eventual failure of an engine was caused by 25K OCI's would be a nightmare in legal terms, so if Amsoil rejected a claim you will have very little chance of taking successful action against them.
With an older engine many main block failures occur because of either coolant or fuel contamination and the longer the OCI is the more likely a failure is to occur, so extending the OCI beyond the manufacturers recommended interval without full UOA monitoring is nuts and Amsoil should not be suggesting that for petrol engines as it is doing at present.
Synthetic oils natural ability and additives fight(absorb) the contamination 6 or 7 fold better than conventional mineral oils.
Synthetic oil can not remove contamination, if wear metals, fuel or anti freeze contaminate an oil, there is no difference in the result in increased engine wear terms between a synthetic oil and a dinosaur one.
Although I use a genuine fully synthetic oil I would never suggest that my engine will last much longer than with a good dinosaur oil because I don't push the OCI boundaries.
If you look through some of the UOA based studies done of different oil types and brands, it is suprising how little difference there is, not only between the major brands but between dino and fully synthetic oils. The tests done by Amsoil are not based on real world UOA results and are only of minor interest.
Synthetic oils use very similar additives to many dino oils and in reality it is just a matter of add pack quality rather than the actual type of oil.
The Amsoil 25K warrenty is faily meaningless because you could run 25K OCI with any of the major brand fully synthetic oils without risking immediate major damage, but that does not mean the life of your engine would not be reduced by increased wear, however trying to prove that the eventual failure of an engine was caused by 25K OCI's would be a nightmare in legal terms, so if Amsoil rejected a claim you will have very little chance of taking successful action against them.
With an older engine many main block failures occur because of either coolant or fuel contamination and the longer the OCI is the more likely a failure is to occur, so extending the OCI beyond the manufacturers recommended interval without full UOA monitoring is nuts and Amsoil should not be suggesting that for petrol engines as it is doing at present.
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Amsoil is certainly an excellant product. There is no way to determine if it will help an engine last and perform longer, or keep an engine cleaner compared to M1 or PP. If you prefer Amsoil to the others then you are using a very good oil.
Originally Posted By: Trav
Quote:
Liqui Moly with Castrol a close second.
Both excellent oils but the Castrol there is not related to the stuff they sell here.
Not even the German Castrol we get here?
Quote:
Liqui Moly with Castrol a close second.
Both excellent oils but the Castrol there is not related to the stuff they sell here.
Not even the German Castrol we get here?
Drifting off topic slightly, if you buy European oils in the US it is worth looking at the oil company web site in Germany (You can select English) to check exactly what you are buying. That will allow you to figure out if it is an HC synthetic or a real fully synthetic for example, as the German definitions are better than the US or UK ones.
In most cases the oil is the same as sold in the EU, BUT some companies do make oils for export only and the fully synthetic label is often confusing.
Originally Posted By: The_Punisher
Originally Posted By: Trav
Quote:
Liqui Moly with Castrol a close second.
Both excellent oils but the Castrol there is not related to the stuff they sell here.
Not even the German Castrol we get here?
In most cases the oil is the same as sold in the EU, BUT some companies do make oils for export only and the fully synthetic label is often confusing.
Originally Posted By: The_Punisher
Originally Posted By: Trav
Quote:
Liqui Moly with Castrol a close second.
Both excellent oils but the Castrol there is not related to the stuff they sell here.
Not even the German Castrol we get here?
After preferred customer discount Amsoil SS line comes to about 8.00 per qrt. Not much more than any other quality synthetic out there. Shipping isn't too bad. I run it in the CRV for 10K changes with factory filter. The Tacoma sees 6K so it's a waste and I don't believe in 1 year changes so I change it every six months for both.
Amsoil is OVERPRICED and OVERHYPED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Have you people never heard of Walmart! 5 quart bottle of Mobil 1 is $24.97 which is slightly less than $5.00 per quart!
quit obsessing over oil and just enjoy your vehicles.
Have you people never heard of Walmart! 5 quart bottle of Mobil 1 is $24.97 which is slightly less than $5.00 per quart!
quit obsessing over oil and just enjoy your vehicles.
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Originally Posted By: loyd
Amsoil is OVERPRICED and OVERHYPED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Have you people never heard of Walmart! 5 quart bottle of Mobil 1 is $24.97 which is slightly less than $5.00 per quart!
quit obsessing over oil and just enjoy your vehicles.
Watch what you say about Amsoil. I kinda said something like that awhile ago and a couple folks on this board wre going to form a posse and lynch me.
Amsoil is OVERPRICED and OVERHYPED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Have you people never heard of Walmart! 5 quart bottle of Mobil 1 is $24.97 which is slightly less than $5.00 per quart!
quit obsessing over oil and just enjoy your vehicles.
Watch what you say about Amsoil. I kinda said something like that awhile ago and a couple folks on this board wre going to form a posse and lynch me.
Originally Posted By: johnnydc
Originally Posted By: loyd
Amsoil is OVERPRICED and OVERHYPED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Have you people never heard of Walmart! 5 quart bottle of Mobil 1 is $24.97 which is slightly less than $5.00 per quart!
quit obsessing over oil and just enjoy your vehicles.
Watch what you say about Amsoil. I kinda said something like that awhile ago and a couple folks on this board wre going to form a posse and lynch me.
LOL you'll be hanging in good company!
Originally Posted By: loyd
Amsoil is OVERPRICED and OVERHYPED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Have you people never heard of Walmart! 5 quart bottle of Mobil 1 is $24.97 which is slightly less than $5.00 per quart!
quit obsessing over oil and just enjoy your vehicles.
Watch what you say about Amsoil. I kinda said something like that awhile ago and a couple folks on this board wre going to form a posse and lynch me.
LOL you'll be hanging in good company!
I think Amsoil has some pretty good oils indeed, but there is something a bit different I can't fully explain about them either.
One big issue I have though is in the oil they recommend for European cars. Now, I wouldn't actually use it as they only make recommendation on which certifications it is suitable for rather than being approved.
However, that is not my issue with it, my issue is that they say it should work for Mercedes-Benz 229.51 spec. 229.51 spec is the diesel engine spec. They obviously do not know this, or at least the person who prepared the document/website/bottles and think 229.51 simply follows 229.5. I'd rather choose a product that at least clearly knows what the spec numbers indicate.
One big issue I have though is in the oil they recommend for European cars. Now, I wouldn't actually use it as they only make recommendation on which certifications it is suitable for rather than being approved.
However, that is not my issue with it, my issue is that they say it should work for Mercedes-Benz 229.51 spec. 229.51 spec is the diesel engine spec. They obviously do not know this, or at least the person who prepared the document/website/bottles and think 229.51 simply follows 229.5. I'd rather choose a product that at least clearly knows what the spec numbers indicate.
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Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: johnnydc
Originally Posted By: loyd
Amsoil is OVERPRICED and OVERHYPED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Have you people never heard of Walmart! 5 quart bottle of Mobil 1 is $24.97 which is slightly less than $5.00 per quart!
quit obsessing over oil and just enjoy your vehicles.
Watch what you say about Amsoil. I kinda said something like that awhile ago and a couple folks on this board wre going to form a posse and lynch me.
LOL you'll be hanging in good company!
Thanks, Nothing like good company to HANG around with.
Originally Posted By: johnnydc
Originally Posted By: loyd
Amsoil is OVERPRICED and OVERHYPED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Have you people never heard of Walmart! 5 quart bottle of Mobil 1 is $24.97 which is slightly less than $5.00 per quart!
quit obsessing over oil and just enjoy your vehicles.
Watch what you say about Amsoil. I kinda said something like that awhile ago and a couple folks on this board wre going to form a posse and lynch me.
LOL you'll be hanging in good company!
Thanks, Nothing like good company to HANG around with.
Originally Posted By: Ayrton
However, that is not my issue with it, my issue is that they say it should work for Mercedes-Benz 229.51 spec. 229.51 spec is the diesel engine spec. They obviously do not know this, or at least the person who prepared the document/website/bottles and think 229.51 simply follows 229.5. I'd rather choose a product that at least clearly knows what the spec numbers indicate.
???
http://bevo.mercedes-benz.com/bevolisten/229.51_en.html
http://www.mobil1.co.uk/why-mobil-1/mercedes-engine-oil.aspx
However, that is not my issue with it, my issue is that they say it should work for Mercedes-Benz 229.51 spec. 229.51 spec is the diesel engine spec. They obviously do not know this, or at least the person who prepared the document/website/bottles and think 229.51 simply follows 229.5. I'd rather choose a product that at least clearly knows what the spec numbers indicate.
???
http://bevo.mercedes-benz.com/bevolisten/229.51_en.html
http://www.mobil1.co.uk/why-mobil-1/mercedes-engine-oil.aspx
Amsoil does have a 229.3 approval from MB, but not a 229.51 according to this document:
http://www.nexttechnology.us/mb/oil.html
I was surprised to see Mobil 1 get a negative comment about shear strength in that document.
http://www.nexttechnology.us/mb/oil.html
I was surprised to see Mobil 1 get a negative comment about shear strength in that document.
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Originally Posted By: Dually
At this moment I'm using Castrol Syntec 5W-20 and I also have used in the past Mobil 1/Pennzoil Ultra.Is Amzoil better or just as good as any oil you would buy in a auto parts store.I use 6k OCI.Thanks Joe
Any of the oils you listed will get your car to 200k or more no problem,pick one and go for it all quality lubricants.
Originally Posted By: loyd
quit obsessing over oil and just enjoy your vehicles.
You do know this is BITOG? we love oil!
At this moment I'm using Castrol Syntec 5W-20 and I also have used in the past Mobil 1/Pennzoil Ultra.Is Amzoil better or just as good as any oil you would buy in a auto parts store.I use 6k OCI.Thanks Joe
Any of the oils you listed will get your car to 200k or more no problem,pick one and go for it all quality lubricants.
Originally Posted By: loyd
quit obsessing over oil and just enjoy your vehicles.
You do know this is BITOG? we love oil!
Originally Posted By: Pablo
Originally Posted By: Ayrton
However, that is not my issue with it, my issue is that they say it should work for Mercedes-Benz 229.51 spec. 229.51 spec is the diesel engine spec. They obviously do not know this, or at least the person who prepared the document/website/bottles and think 229.51 simply follows 229.5. I'd rather choose a product that at least clearly knows what the spec numbers indicate.
???
http://bevo.mercedes-benz.com/bevolisten/229.51_en.html
http://www.mobil1.co.uk/why-mobil-1/mercedes-engine-oil.aspx
Pablo, what Ayrton is referring to is that both of Amsoil's European offerings (5W40 and 5W30 Euro) conform to MB 229.51 and BMW LL-04 specs. They do not.offer a product that conforms to MB 229.5 / BMW LL-01 discretely.
The problem with this is that due to the poor gasoline quality in North America, owners of gasoline MB and BMW vehicles are best served with 229.5 / LL-01 oils only. In other parts of the world, the 229.51 / LL-04 can be used in place of the other two specs in all engines.
I am a fan of Amsoil, and regularly use their products in many different vehicles. They make excellent lubes. However, I won't use it in my MB / BMW vehicles due to the lack of a discretely marketed 229.5 product.
Originally Posted By: Ayrton
However, that is not my issue with it, my issue is that they say it should work for Mercedes-Benz 229.51 spec. 229.51 spec is the diesel engine spec. They obviously do not know this, or at least the person who prepared the document/website/bottles and think 229.51 simply follows 229.5. I'd rather choose a product that at least clearly knows what the spec numbers indicate.
???
http://bevo.mercedes-benz.com/bevolisten/229.51_en.html
http://www.mobil1.co.uk/why-mobil-1/mercedes-engine-oil.aspx
Pablo, what Ayrton is referring to is that both of Amsoil's European offerings (5W40 and 5W30 Euro) conform to MB 229.51 and BMW LL-04 specs. They do not.offer a product that conforms to MB 229.5 / BMW LL-01 discretely.
The problem with this is that due to the poor gasoline quality in North America, owners of gasoline MB and BMW vehicles are best served with 229.5 / LL-01 oils only. In other parts of the world, the 229.51 / LL-04 can be used in place of the other two specs in all engines.
I am a fan of Amsoil, and regularly use their products in many different vehicles. They make excellent lubes. However, I won't use it in my MB / BMW vehicles due to the lack of a discretely marketed 229.5 product.
Originally Posted By: il_signore97
Originally Posted By: Pablo
Originally Posted By: Ayrton
However, that is not my issue with it, my issue is that they say it should work for Mercedes-Benz 229.51 spec. 229.51 spec is the diesel engine spec. They obviously do not know this, or at least the person who prepared the document/website/bottles and think 229.51 simply follows 229.5. I'd rather choose a product that at least clearly knows what the spec numbers indicate.
???
http://bevo.mercedes-benz.com/bevolisten/229.51_en.html
http://www.mobil1.co.uk/why-mobil-1/mercedes-engine-oil.aspx
Pablo, what Ayrton is referring to is that both of Amsoil's European offerings (5W40 and 5W30 Euro) conform to MB 229.51 and BMW LL-04 specs. They do not.offer a product that conforms to MB 229.5 / BMW LL-01 discretely.
The problem with this is that due to the poor gasoline quality in North America, owners of gasoline MB and BMW vehicles are best served with 229.5 / LL-01 oils only. In other parts of the world, the 229.51 / LL-04 can be used in place of the other two specs in all engines.
I am a fan of Amsoil, and regularly use their products in many different vehicles. They make excellent lubes. However, I won't use it in my MB / BMW vehicles due to the lack of a discretely marketed 229.5 product.
OK, but that's not what he wrote. Anyway, tomorrow Amsoil will roll out their new full SAPS Euro 5W-40.
The link SHOULD be (after tomorrow): Amsoil EFM Full SAPS 5W-40 European Engine Motor Oil
Originally Posted By: Pablo
Originally Posted By: Ayrton
However, that is not my issue with it, my issue is that they say it should work for Mercedes-Benz 229.51 spec. 229.51 spec is the diesel engine spec. They obviously do not know this, or at least the person who prepared the document/website/bottles and think 229.51 simply follows 229.5. I'd rather choose a product that at least clearly knows what the spec numbers indicate.
???
http://bevo.mercedes-benz.com/bevolisten/229.51_en.html
http://www.mobil1.co.uk/why-mobil-1/mercedes-engine-oil.aspx
Pablo, what Ayrton is referring to is that both of Amsoil's European offerings (5W40 and 5W30 Euro) conform to MB 229.51 and BMW LL-04 specs. They do not.offer a product that conforms to MB 229.5 / BMW LL-01 discretely.
The problem with this is that due to the poor gasoline quality in North America, owners of gasoline MB and BMW vehicles are best served with 229.5 / LL-01 oils only. In other parts of the world, the 229.51 / LL-04 can be used in place of the other two specs in all engines.
I am a fan of Amsoil, and regularly use their products in many different vehicles. They make excellent lubes. However, I won't use it in my MB / BMW vehicles due to the lack of a discretely marketed 229.5 product.
OK, but that's not what he wrote. Anyway, tomorrow Amsoil will roll out their new full SAPS Euro 5W-40.
The link SHOULD be (after tomorrow): Amsoil EFM Full SAPS 5W-40 European Engine Motor Oil
Originally Posted By: Pablo
OK, but that's not what he wrote. Anyway, tomorrow Amsoil will roll out their new full SAPS Euro 5W-40.
The link SHOULD be (after tomorrow): Amsoil EFM Full SAPS 5W-40 European Engine Motor Oil
Can't wait to see what that looks like. I had no idea that they had a full saps euro product in the works. Thanks for the info.
OK, but that's not what he wrote. Anyway, tomorrow Amsoil will roll out their new full SAPS Euro 5W-40.
The link SHOULD be (after tomorrow): Amsoil EFM Full SAPS 5W-40 European Engine Motor Oil
Can't wait to see what that looks like. I had no idea that they had a full saps euro product in the works. Thanks for the info.
Originally Posted By: skyship
I was surprised to see Mobil 1 get a negative comment about shear strength in that document.
That's not surprising, since those Mobil 1 varieties were 30 grades with ILSAC certifications.
I was surprised to see Mobil 1 get a negative comment about shear strength in that document.
That's not surprising, since those Mobil 1 varieties were 30 grades with ILSAC certifications.
Originally Posted By: loyd
quit obsessing over oil
never
quit obsessing over oil
never
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