Amsoil Saber Professional-Untested for JASO FC, ISO-L-EGD, API TC ????

[mtgrs737]

I guess it's way Amsoil IMPLIES that their product meets the testing standards with their use of BOLD type that ticks me off. If they simply stated that their product has not been tested to these criteria but that THEY have tested it and stand behind it with a consumer warranty then I would have been OK with it. IMHO you only know for sure what is actualy tested by acredited testing procedures or your own seat of the pants expeirance. I'm sorry if I started a buzz on this subject but if the truth be known I feel a little betrayed by Amsoil advertizing because I bought it without reading carefuly, shame on me.

 

[mtgrs737]

I just read Pablo's link to the Mobil 1 site and I was happy to see that MX2T EXCEEDS the JASO FC, Preposed ISO, API TC specificaitons! You guys are great! I have learned a lot here. Thanks!

 

[TooSlick]

Ben,

Your information about basestocks and additives is only about 1-2 year out of date

- I believe you are referring to the previous 100:1 oil, which had a FP of 507F and used the high molecular weight basestock. The Sabre professional has a FP of only 214F - about the same as the Mobil MX2T two stroke oil.

I think you'll find the Sabre Professional a bit more to your liking ...

regards,

Ted

 

[blano]

Ted, Flashpoint gives you very little insight as to what base oils are used. Flash point is only tested for because of safety, and transportation issues. Many two cyle oils have more than one base oil and the flash point test either pics up the dilluant or ther lightest base oil. In other words the Flash test is a measure of the lowest temp at which vapours givin off by heating the sample combust.
Any 100:1 oil to have adequate seizure protecion must use a high molecular weight base oils and a robust(which can be a bad thing for a 2 cycle) additive package.
You are right in that my testing was done using the last formulation. I havent seen any of the new stuff yet.

 

[Hirev]

quote:

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Originally posted by mtgrs737:
I guess it's way Amsoil IMPLIES that their product meets the testing standards with their use of BOLD type that ticks me off. If they simply stated that their product has not been tested to these criteria but that THEY have tested it and stand behind it with a consumer warranty then I would have been OK with it. IMHO you only know for sure what is actualy tested by acredited testing procedures or your own seat of the pants expeirance. I'm sorry if I started a buzz on this subject but if the truth be known I feel a little betrayed by Amsoil advertizing because I bought it without reading carefuly, shame on me.

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Not that MX2T is a bad oil..... but they are just as guilty as Amsoil and many other 2 stroke oil manufactures about certificating 2 stroke oils.

FACT is ... API TC rated oil has not been tested since 1992 or 1993 when API washed their hands of 2 stroke oil testing. MX2T is a newer formula than that. So how could it be API TC certified?

I never have seen the JASO required certification number on MX2T.

Mobil MX2T along with other 2 stroke oil manufactures and blenders uses the words "Proposed ISO-L-EGD" This does not mean it is certified or tested.

Another fact on ISO-EGD certification. ISO does not certify USA made 2 stroke oil. ISO only set International standards on it. They did do some 2 stroke oil testing in the 90s to establish their guidelines. But most of the actual work was done by JASO not ISO. When ISO did do some testing they used JASO reference oils!!

ISO is a joke in itself. They are more about bureaucracy and money than anything else. There is much money in reinventing the wheel with programs of the month in the business world. Some people think they are an economic disease.

Toyota tried and aborted ISO 9000 certification after they seen the light.

I have also used to worked for a company that was ISO 9000 certified. They had me go to school and learn some of their not so hot system. If you want to read more about ISO 9000 here you go. ISO 9000

I would not care one way or another if a 2 stroke oil is ISO.

 

[TooSlick]

Blano,

I suspect any of the SOTA, ester based, ISO-L-EGD oils could be recommended @ 100:1 for homeowner use, with little or no effect on durability. Your situation is somewhat different, since you are using these products in a commercial woodcutting operation and putting vastly more hours on your equipment. I would not argue that richer mix ratios are desirable under those conditions. Indeed the labels on the bottles of Amsoil Sabre Professional recommend 50:1 to 80:1 ratios for commercial and/or racing applications.

The typical homeowner buys the cheapest two stroke oil he can find and mixes it with 87 octane fuel. Running a 32:1 mix with low octane fuel in a high rpm, air cooled, two stroke engine results in very bad performance. Running the Amsoil 100:1 synthetic in place of that low quality oil results in comparatively excellent performance - if for no other reason then the 100:1 mixture does not degrade the octane rating of the fuel.

Part of the problem with this discussion is that folks are talking about entirely different applications to some degree. I'd put the guys with the high performance PWCs and Sleds in the same catagory as commercial two stroke users....

 

[blano]

quote:

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The typical homeowner buys the cheapest two stroke oil he can find and mixes it with 87 octane fuel. Running a 32:1 mix with low octane fuel in a high rpm, air cooled, two stroke engine results in very bad performance. Running the Amsoil 100:1 synthetic in place of that low quality oil results in comparatively excellent performance - if for no other reason then the 100:1 mixture does not degrade the octane rating of the fuel.

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Any off the shelf air cooled two cycle oil will work fine at the suggested ratio the MFG reccomends. I honestly cant see putting amsoil or Mobil for that matter on crappy craftsman, ryobi and the homeowner grade Stihl and Husky equipment. With these types of equipemtn the life sapn isnt that great and no benifit would be realised using a high quality oil save slightly less smoke and smell.
As far as octane degradation. This simply isnt a issue with outdoor power equipment. The compression ratios used are low and as a result the octane requirment is low a well. Besides saying a oils effect on octane is directly related to its concentration in the fuel is a blanket statement that isnt true.

 

[wileyE]

Anybody, please name a few more...

quote:

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here's a few jaso fc's:

===http://www.jalos.or.jp/onfile/pdf/2T_EV_LIST.pdf===


IS0-egd is for real, all the oil companys may not submit for testing but a lot of them do know what it takes to meet the spec. Sometimes with their own testing, sometimes with help from the additive suppliers. I know companys like lubrizol (additive) supply all over the world and do run these tests, even the obsolete ones like api-tc. Iso-ege is already being discussed so I don't think it's going away.

===http://www.lubrizol.com/ReadyReference/EngineOils/9-smallengine/default.asp===

I've read patent material on sevaral oils (castrol products for example) that surpassed iso egd and jaso fc in their formulation testing (even with ashless ad packs). But don't state it anywhere on the product data or packaging, but do state api-tc. At this point ISO Jaso isn't really reconized by the US consumer so isn't promoted.

 

[jimo]

AMSOIL Saber Professional 100:1 is NOT ISO-L-EGD certified or JASO FD registered as might be reasonably inferred from the Amsoil literature and label on the bottles. RedMax will deny a warranty if a 50:1 ISO-L-EGD certified and JASO FD registered two cycle is not used even though Amsoil claims Saber Professional meets the FD specification at the 100:1 ratio.
Using Amsoil may result in the equipment manufacturer denying a warranty claim.