2-stroke oils

[super_koza]

Hi there! I need some help with choosing the optimal oir for my Vespa Primavera 50. The user manual requires oils which comply with API TC, JASO FC, ISO-L-EGD specifications and recommends Eni i-Ride PG 2T oil. This Eni might be fully synthetic or semi-synthetic, I am not sure. However, it doesn't seem to be available anymore, and Eni website recommends Eni i-Ride scooter 2T (semi-synthetic) and Eni i-Ride racing 2T (fully synthetic). QUESTION 1: Given the oils comply with the same standards, does it make any difference whether it is semi-synthetic or fully synthetic? Lets focus on Motul oils, since they are easiest to obtain where I live:

• 510 2T (API TC, JASO FD, ISO-L-EGD, semi-synthetic)
• 710 2T (API TC, JASO FD, ISO-L-EGD, fully synthetic)
• SCOOTER EXPERT 2T (API TC, JASO FD, ISO-L-EGD, semi-synthetic)
• SCOOTER POWER 2T (API TC, JASO FD, ISO-L-EGD, fully synthetic)

They all seem to comply with the same standards, yet there is a distinct classification between scooter oils and "regular oils". QUESTION 2: Given the oils comply with the same standards, does it make any difference whether it is "scooter" oil or not? QUESTION 3: I have heard that fully synthetic oils should be used only with engines that are tuned and run at high rpms (11000). Semi-synthetic should be used with engines that are not tuned. Is this true, because it doesn't make any sense for me... Thanks a lot!

 

[CT8]

What does the owners manual recommend?

 

[krismoriah72]

JASO FD does it make any difference whether it is semi-synthetic or fully synthetic? Find a good brand name oil that is easy to find and budget friendly with the JASO FD spec and stick with that.

 

[Warlord]

Often manufacturers will use the same formulation in many different bottles to appeal to different segments of the market. The scooter oil may not be much different if at all from the 710 or 510. You can use full synthetic oil in any engine as long as it meets the required specifications. If it were me I'd use the 710 or scooter power.

 

[super_koza]

Originally Posted by CT8

What does the owners manual recommend?

It recommends: API TC, JASO FC, ISO-L-EGD https://i.imgur.com/VAkdAXd.png

Originally Posted by krismoriah72

Find a good brand name oil that is easy to find and budget friendly with the JASO FD spec and stick with that.

I tend to agree. FD is the same as FC, just with better detergent properties. Can't harm it the components are cleaner, even though the engine might not care about that.

Originally Posted by Warlord

Often manufacturers will use the same formulation in many different bottles to appeal to different segments of the market. The scooter oil may not be much different if at all from the 710 or 510. You can use full synthetic oil in any engine as long as it meets the required specifications. If it were me I'd use the 710 or scooter power.

Thanks! This is what I expected. As I consume 2-3 liters per season, the price difference is not worth some eventual problems, that might occur due to lower quality oil. I would still like to know whether there is any difference between the synthetic and semi-synthetic oils if they satisfy the same specifications. My logic says it shouldn't matter, because ISO-L-EGD tests for piston cleanliness too. I hope someone with expert knowledge answers this... Thanks everyone!

 

[kschachn]

Here is the current JASO licensing list. Not all licensed oils are on this list but everything on the list is licensed. http://www.jalos.or.jp/onfile/pdf/2T_EV_LIST.pdf All licensed oils will use this method of displaying the license: http://www.jalos.or.jp/onfile/pdf/2T_2018_EV1912.pdf Forget the base stock composition and focus on the proper license.

 

[super_koza]

@kschachn So according to this, any of the Motul oils would do the job just fine and I shouldn't care whether it is synthetic or semi?

 

[Cujet]

Originally Posted by super_koza

QUESTION 1: Given the oils comply with the same standards, does it make any difference whether it is semi-synthetic or fully synthetic? QUESTION 2: Given the oils comply with the same standards, does it make any difference whether it is "scooter" oil or not? QUESTION 3: I have heard that fully synthetic oils should be used only with engines that are tuned and run at high rpms ...

1) It really won't matter. It's good to know that one of the very best "general purpose" two stroke oils ever made is a Penzoil petroleum product, not a synthetic. (see link below) 2) Not a bit. Scooters don't have an unusual duty cycle and don't need any special needs beyond the EG-D specifications. 3) Synthetic oils tend to have the promise of better quality and better characteristics. However, as those of us who "love" 2 stroke engines know, that may or may not be true. It depends on the oil, the engine loads and temperatures and a number of other factors. Sufficient octane to eliminate any risk of detonation is a must. Sufficient oil quantity is a must. Under a load, 100 to 1 will increase wear rates, period, end of story. Proper ignition timing is also required. Probably the easiest "ultra critical" thing to control is proper jetting. We tend to look to oils to fix problems. But the reality is that a properly configured engine will have a long operational life regardless of oil choice (among quality oils) . When we raced 2 stroke SeaDoo's, the engines were modified and operated far beyond their original HP outputs and RPM limits. Wear was always a factor, especially the exhaust side of the piston rings. Oil choice made little difference here. Among identical engines, the operators choice of oils varied but lifespan really did not. Whether it was the SeaDoo synthetic or Redline Racing oil, or even Golden Spectro! Not much difference. What does make a difference is oil ratio. 32 to 1 provides all the protection possible in normal conditions. As less oil is used, wear rates increased. http://www.ultralightnews.com/features/oiltest.htm

 

[Kamele0N]

1) since vespas are aircooled....I would choose synthetic oil.. Motul 710 and scooter power look identical to me on a PDS paper.... Are you sure that Motul is easiest to obtain then lets, say OMV 2T-S? <----- its, a, decent (racing) oil!

 

[Silk]

Piaggio (they make Vespa) recommend FD only for my Zip 50...it has a Cat. I usually use FD, but have used FC and FB without problems. Your Primavera 2T will probably have a Cat too, so stick to FD...less smoke, less oil in the Cat.

 

[tundraotto]

Is the vespa premix or oil injection?

 

[Jetronic]

Originally Posted by krismoriah72

JASO FD does it make any difference whether it is semi-synthetic or fully synthetic? Find a good brand name oil that is easy to find and budget friendly with the JASO FD spec and stick with that.

It can matter. PIB counts as synthetic, and is used as an oil substitute to reduce smoking. However, full PIB as base stock doesn't protect as well, according to a Yamaha study i came across.

 

[Rick_A]

A question for Cujet. Some of the oils for premix vs injection are very thick. Does the viscosity of the oil have any affect on the oil ratio to use?

 

[Jetronic]

Yes. The thinner oils contain a solvent to promote mixing and that won't help any with lubrication.

 

[Kamele0N]

Oils intended for injection are usually between sae30-sae40 viscosity grade... Like 8cst-14cst @100C (212F)... Anything "higher" is for premix only...

 

[rdevans89]

I would use any modern 2 stroke oil from auto parts stores or hardware stores, no problem, don't overthink it. I have run two strokes starting in the early seventies and have seen the advancement of the oil. Back when the only really good choice was blendzal or castrol r vegetable based. Expensive and I could not afford it, used the pure petroleum based at the recommended 20:1. Lots of blue smoke and some fouled plugs. I doubt if the old style petroleum oils are even made anymore. Then at a local shop the parts guy showed us something new, Klotz techniplate. What a game changer, we all started using it with great results. I finished up my dirtbike days using golden spectro. Today I would think any name brand synthetic or semi-synthetic oils are all good stuff. Premix or injected, I never noticed any difference personally. Cheers.

 

[Kamele0N]

There are still differences between brands...

 

[Normac]

Try the above tests with Stihl Ultra vs Amsoil, and i'd bet money there'd be a different outcome.

 

[rdevans89]

If anything string trimmers and chain saws run hotter and in bad conditions than a 50cc scooter ever will. Sure $12 a quart amsoil is better than budget super tech, IT BETTER BE. Any name brand oil , synthetic or semi syn, found in any hardware store or auto parts store is just fine. Cheers.

 

[02SE]

I use the Motul 710 2T in both of our highstrung dirtbikes. No issues to date.