Amsoil MTF or Ravenol MTF 2

Joined
Apr 8, 2022
Messages
36
So i have been reading and looking for a good replacement transmission oil for my 2018 Honda civic 1.5T .
I daily drive my car and have a sporty driving style specially with this turbo engine.

Honda only recommends Honda MTF 3 .There are a lot of people who run the Amsoil Manual Synchromesh Transmission oil and say its much better then the Honda MTF3 .Amsoil also says it replaces genuine honda mtf.
I never heard of Ravenol untill yesterday ,so far what i've read are pretty good things.The Ravenol MTF2 is also a direct replacement for the oem MTF3 fluid .
I've found 1 person who used the Ravenol MTF 2 and said it is much better then the oem mtf 3.

From what i've found the Vc of honda MTF3 is 6.9 , Amsoil MTF 9.6 and Ravenol MTF2 is 7.4 .
The Ravenol is 75w80 and the Amsoil is 5w30 both are full synthetic and the ravenol is on PAO base.
I'm located in Belgium and i can buy the Ravenol oil from the Ravenol germany webshop .The Amsoil is more difficult to get but i also can get that true a webshop in germany. Oem Honda MTF3 is 17-18euro/liter ( $18 - $19/liter) Ravenol is 15.50 euro/L or 12.99 Euro/L for 4L .Amsoil is 13.50Euro /L .
So price wise they both are cheaper then oem Honda MTF.Would the Ravenol perform just as good as the Amsoil ?
 
Joined
Oct 6, 2020
Messages
1,972
Are you looking for a fluid similar in viscosity?

The AMSOIL seems much thicker.
 

Hondanickx

Thread starter
Joined
Apr 8, 2022
Messages
36
I'm looking for something that meets or exceeds the honda spec mtf 3 .
It needs to be suitable for a (brass) synchromesh gearbox.
Other people use the ac Delco synchromesh FM oil and motul gear 300 with succes .Most of them are 75w 80 or 90 oils.Only Amsoil is 5w30. I'm not sure what Honda mtf3 is ,I thought someone said 5w30?
 

Hondanickx

Thread starter
Joined
Apr 8, 2022
Messages
36
You’ll never really know that since Honda like most Asian manufacturers does not license their proprietary products.
From other members that had virgin mtf 3 analysed they said it was 75w80 gl4 spec transmission oil.
The amsoil apparently is 5w30 Motoroil with additives?
 

Hondanickx

Thread starter
Joined
Apr 8, 2022
Messages
36
This is from the honda tech forum
I dont know If there's any truth in it ...

As you can see in the virgin oil analysis there are some differences b/w regualr oil or mtf. honda mtf has more anti-wear additives (zinc, phosphorus) than regular motor oil. GF-4 motor oils cannot have more than 1000ppm of ZDDP, otherwise it will not be certified by the API. ot: amsoil is a motor oil that has a lot of ZDDP, therefore it is not api certified. you can also tell by looking at the voa's that regular motor oil contains friction modifiers such as moly and boron that are not present in honda mtf. these friction modifiers are supposed to reduce friction which may have negative effects on shifting.

honda mtf - voa

Titanium -0
Silver - 0
Copper - 0
Lead - 0
Tin - 0
Aluminum - 0
Nickel - 0
Iron - 0
Chromium - 0
Sodium - 0
Boron - 1
Silicon - 0
Water - 0
Soot - 0
Glycol - 0

Moly - 0
Magnesium - 11
Calcium - 2652
Barium - 0
Phosphorous - 1401
Zinc -1564
[email protected] - 11.26
Tan mg/g - 0.30


new gf-4 havoline 5w-30

all other elements are 0
Boron - 165
Moly - 80
Magnesium - 55
Calcium - 2200
Phos - 770
Zinc - 980
Vis @ 100c - 10.8
 

MolaKule

Staff member
Joined
Jun 5, 2002
Messages
23,076
Location
Iowegia - USA
This is from the honda tech forum
I dont know If there's any truth in it ...

As you can see in the virgin oil analysis there are some differences b/w regualr oil or mtf. honda mtf has more anti-wear additives (zinc, phosphorus) than regular motor oil. GF-4 motor oils cannot have more than 1000ppm of ZDDP, otherwise it will not be certified by the API. ot: amsoil is a motor oil that has a lot of ZDDP, therefore it is not api certified. you can also tell by looking at the voa's that regular motor oil contains friction modifiers such as moly and boron that are not present in honda mtf. these friction modifiers are supposed to reduce friction which may have negative effects on shifting.

honda mtf - voa

Titanium -0
Silver - 0
Copper - 0
Lead - 0
Tin - 0
Aluminum - 0
Nickel - 0
Iron - 0
Chromium - 0
Sodium - 0
Boron - 1
Silicon - 0
Water - 0
Soot - 0
Glycol - 0

Moly - 0
Magnesium - 11
Calcium - 2652
Barium - 0
Phosphorous - 1401
Zinc -1564
[email protected] - 11.26
Tan mg/g - 0.30


new gf-4 havoline 5w-30

all other elements are 0
Boron - 165
Moly - 80
Magnesium - 55
Calcium - 2200
Phos - 770
Zinc - 980
Vis @ 100c - 10.8
This doesn't prove anything. A DI package for an MTF is not the same DI package as for a PCMO.
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2014
Messages
3,447
Location
Paradise of Florida
VOA of that Honda MTF looks ancient. You need to get a newer or current VOA of the Honda fluid available at your dealership.... what started out thick years ago has become thinner. From 11+cst, maybe when they stopped using 10w30 and 10w40 motor oils,... closer to 7cst nowadays. USA doesn't have number designations.... Its just Honda or Acura MTF.... with PN changes every few years. I'm guessing that in Europe its called Honda MTF3.

Post a picture of your owners manual and its recommendations. Haven't looked in a while, and know that Honda MTF is now pretty thin, and that Honda USA also states that 0w20 or 5w20 can be used temporarily in an emergency, and replaced with Honda MTF ASAP.


A bit on the thin side, better for colder climates
A bit on the thick side for modded vehicles
https://www.redlineoil.com/mtl-75w80-gl-4-gear-oil The two can be mixed at whatever ratio you want... get a quart of MTLV and MTL.

Like Redline MTL, bit on the thicker side. Amsoil is an excellent go to fluid and easy to recommend.


If it is available locally to you, then use with the Honda OE fluid or one of the below:

What performs best depends on YOU the driver and the condition of YOUR transmission.
 
Joined
Jun 2, 2002
Messages
3,713
Location
Georgia/Retired
Sort of off the technical topic of this discussion but keep in mind that Amsoil has free shipping on purchases over $49 through 28 June.
 

MolaKule

Staff member
Joined
Jun 5, 2002
Messages
23,076
Location
Iowegia - USA
That's why I put a ? Behind it .I'm no expert ,that's why I ask here .
I would recommend you get acquainted with and familiarize yourself with this:


Amsoil is simply saying that its MTF "falls" into the the same viscosity 'range' as that of a 5W30 PCMO, a 10 [email protected] viscosity and that data is available to everyone:


Historically speaking, many motor oils were used in light truck and vehicle MT's until Texaco formulated a specialized "Synchromesh" for GM and Chrysler MT's at a 100C viscosity of 10 cSt with a specially formulated DI package for their synchronized 'synchromesh" transmissions, which used brass synchronizer assemblies to allow the gearing to match the rotational speeds for gear transitions instead of 'grinding' gears.

Amsoil MTF, Pennzoil Synchromesh, and Redline MTL 75W80


are all in the same viscosity range.

Later as MT's changed, dedicated MTF's were developed with viscosities ranging from 6 cST for new light vehicles and to reduce fuel consumption, and up to 14.5 cSt (75W90) for the Muncie type transmissions.
 
Last edited:

Hondanickx

Thread starter
Joined
Apr 8, 2022
Messages
36
I eventually went with the Ravenol MTF 2 and have been using it now for aprox 1500km.
Shifts nicely and to me it's smoother then with the honda mtf.
My owners manual only states honda mtf 3 no other like 0w20 or I would have looked into that.
The older honda engines could use 10w30 mineral engine oil,but those days are long gone.
 

MolaKule

Staff member
Joined
Jun 5, 2002
Messages
23,076
Location
Iowegia - USA
So i have been reading and looking for a good replacement transmission oil for my 2018 Honda civic 1.5T .
I daily drive my car and have a sporty driving style specially with this turbo engine.

Honda only recommends Honda MTF 3 .There are a lot of people who run the Amsoil Manual Synchromesh Transmission oil and say its much better then the Honda MTF3 .Amsoil also says it replaces genuine honda mtf.
I never heard of Ravenol untill yesterday ,so far what i've read are pretty good things.The Ravenol MTF2 is also a direct replacement for the oem MTF3 fluid .
I've found 1 person who used the Ravenol MTF 2 and said it is much better then the oem mtf 3.

From what i've found the Vc of honda MTF3 is 6.9 , Amsoil MTF 9.6 and Ravenol MTF2 is 7.4 .
The Ravenol is 75w80 and the Amsoil is 5w30 both are full synthetic and the ravenol is on PAO base.
I'm located in Belgium and i can buy the Ravenol oil from the Ravenol germany webshop .The Amsoil is more difficult to get but i also can get that true a webshop in germany. Oem Honda MTF3 is 17-18euro/liter ( $18 - $19/liter) Ravenol is 15.50 euro/L or 12.99 Euro/L for 4L .Amsoil is 13.50Euro /L .
So price wise they both are cheaper then oem Honda MTF.Would the Ravenol perform just as good as the Amsoil ?
I keep telling people hey, don't be lazy, draw a 3-4 oz sample of the MTF before you drain and fill and have it analyzed for [email protected], then post it here.

That way, we can look at the viscosity and the basic chemical signature and suggest a non-OEM replacement.
 
Last edited:
Top