Amsoil HDD in 04 Corolla?

[dave1251]

Yeah, this TGMO is a miracle 0W20 in a bottle has gotten out of hand. I understand this is where the next generation of lubes is going but that does not equal better than the rest. Also you would consider my choice of PYB 5W20 and FS 5W20 as fit for only door hinge lube also. But the hype surrounding certain oils is really cult like. Just buy what is easily available, meets specs that is on the label, and at a price you are comfortable at. This oil has this difference compared to this oil when the moon is red while dancing around a bonfire stuff is just extreme.

 

[Trav]

No i did use PU 5w20 in my winter driven Expedition.

 

[KrisZ]

Originally Posted By: dave1251
Trav, believe it or not I am going to help you out.

There is no doubt in my mind that TGMO 0W20 is a high quality lube. But how does it over come the higher viscosity it has to comparable 0W20's. UOA's have shown it has a higher viscosity. VI's must be working hard to sustain the FE benefits that this oil supposed to have.


Lightning strike in 3...2...1...

 

[Nesser]

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
As it turns out most 20wt oils are clustered at the light end of the 20wt spectrum with a HTHSV of 2.6cP and without exception when a 20wt oil is specified my an OEM it has a HTHSV of 2.6cP.


Thanks for the welcome and reply.

Can you put the difference of 0.2 into context - how much fuel economy difference would be expected because of the difference in the HTHSV. Is it possible or are there too many factors?

It bothers me a bit we're only dealing with 1 significant digit but units of 10^6/s ie) 2.649 vs 2.751

Are the "lighter" 20 weights able to stay near the 2.6 minimum limit throughout an OCI? How important is it if they shift below for wear? I would assume there is some kind of safety factor built in to the API spec.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: Nesser
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
As it turns out most 20wt oils are clustered at the light end of the 20wt spectrum with a HTHSV of 2.6cP and without exception when a 20wt oil is specified my an OEM it has a HTHSV of 2.6cP.


Thanks for the welcome and reply.

Can you put the difference of 0.2 into context - how much fuel economy difference would be expected because of the difference in the HTHSV. Is it possible or are there too many factors?

It bothers me a bit we're only dealing with 1 significant digit but units of 10^6/s ie) 2.649 vs 2.751

Are the "lighter" 20 weights able to stay near the 2.6 minimum limit throughout an OCI? How important is it if they shift below for wear? I would assume there is some kind of safety factor built in to the API spec.


You'll never be able to tell IMO, too many other variables. What I'd like to see is what the difference in wear would be over the life of the vehicle, and I'd bet no one would be able to calculate that either.

 

[Trav]

Quote:
Lightning strike in 3...2...1...

I was like a cat on a hot tin roof driving that thing.

JK

 

[CATERHAM]

HTHSV spec's are sometimes given to two even three decimal places, so yes 0.2cP is significant. For example a difference of 0.1cP will be noticeable in your oil pressure. So if one is fine tuning their oil viscosity based on oil pressure a difference of as little as 0.1cP is good to know.
Put another way, a 2.8cP oil is closer to a 2.9cP 30wt oil than a typical 2.6cP 20wt. And if the oil in question is the very shear stable ASM 0W-20 then in service it will have the viscosity characteristics more similar of a 30wt than a 20wt oil.

As a grade, 20wt oils are very shear stable but many do shear or lets say loose their virgin viscosity some; 10%, 15% or even 20% in some cases including fuel dilution. Is it a problem for engines for which a 20wt oil is specified? No, because the safety margin is very large. The reason is, vehicles spec'd for a 20wt oil don't as a rule see high oil temp's and oil temp's is what it's all about in choosing the correct oil viscosity.

 

[CATERHAM]

Originally Posted By: Nesser
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM


- how much fuel economy difference would be expected because of the difference in the HTHSV. Is it possible or are there too many factors?

Yes fuel economy relates first and foremost to the HTHSV rating of an oil at normal operating temperatures.
Yes there are other secondary factors such as the DI package of an oil and the oil's VI; the latter having more of an impact depending on how much time the engine operates below normal hot oil temp's. In the winter months of a temperate climate that may be most of the time.
That said the fuel ecomomy difference between a typical 5W-20 and a light 0W/5w30 will not likely be more than 2%. That's less than 1 mpg on a car that gets 40 mpg; very difficult to measure for yourself with all the other factors that can affect fuel economy. But whether you can measure the difference or not the fuel economy difference is real nonetheless.

 

[Turk]

So, can he run Amsoil HDD in 04 Corolla?

 

[bluesubie]

Originally Posted By: tpitcher
So, can he run Amsoil HDD in 04 Corolla?

Definitely!

There was a recent very good uoa on HDD posted by buster in the uoa forum from an Outback owner that no longer posts here because of the silliness (my words not his) that now goes on here at bitog. Seems like it was around a 12k mile run, IIRC.

I gave my Mom a copy of the Toyota back spec oil chart to show her dealer in SC to see if they thought it would help with fuel economy. I don't know what they use in the newer Toyota's, but they would only put 5w30 in her 2004 Highlander. They said they've had better results with 5w30 in the SC heat.

-Dennis

 

[CATERHAM]

Originally Posted By: tpitcher
So, can he run Amsoil HDD in 04 Corolla?

Of course he can, but the real question should be, would there be any benefit to running that heavy diesel oil? The clear answer is no, if fact their are just negatives.

IMO the best long drain Amsoil oil choice for the Corolla would be ASM 0W-20.

 

[Jim Allen]

I agree. Even a good low ash PCMO 5W30 would be preferable.

 

[Norm Olt]

"HTHSV spec's are given to two even three decimal places, so, yes..."

The fact that a specification is made (perhaps "claimed" is more relevant?) to a greater degree fails to PROVE that they are truly significant at all.

Even to the 4th decimal place.

Numbers are, after all, only numbers and often have even less significance the further they stray from the decimal point. If you are getting 0.25% annual interest on your savings account or 0.25135% you are still doing very poorly.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: Norm Olt
The fact that a specification is made (perhaps "claimed" is more relevant?) to a greater degree fails to PROVE that they are truly significant at all.


Aside from your analogy, my question would be about the error bar. One can report the HTHS to as many decimal places as one wants. What's the measuring error? What's the variation between batches?

An HTHS of 3.516 +/- 0.2 makes the last two decimal places pretty useless.