"Tactical engine lubricant". That would make a great advertising blurb on oil bottles!
Amsoil dispels the One Arm Bandit test.
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Royal Purple is fine if you get the HPS line. The SN/HMX aren't anything to write home about. Considered using the HPS 5w20 but it was cheaper to get Redline 0w20.
Originally Posted by KCJeep
Amsoil can be a hot button, but the real whipping boy around here seems to be Royal Purple. Just my observation, but I have never seen a RP thread with a happy ending.
RP is a great product. I've used various RP products in various applications. It's just that AMSOIL is better
Amsoil can be a hot button, but the real whipping boy around here seems to be Royal Purple. Just my observation, but I have never seen a RP thread with a happy ending.
RP is a great product. I've used various RP products in various applications. It's just that AMSOIL is better
Originally Posted by Shannow
Pretty sure that it was from that paper, the different hydraulic equipment tests gave different orders of merit … thus my statements of the day that taking a Sequence IVA compliant oil, then putting it on one of these tests, then taking a test oil and beating it on the test was not indicative of that oil passing Sequence IVA, in any way, shape or form, nor being better in general.
I didn't see any info indicating that Amsoil was saying that the ASTM D4172 test had any kind of correlation to meeting, or was a substitution for a Sequence IVA test. Amsoil just throws in that D4172 test info.
Pretty sure that it was from that paper, the different hydraulic equipment tests gave different orders of merit … thus my statements of the day that taking a Sequence IVA compliant oil, then putting it on one of these tests, then taking a test oil and beating it on the test was not indicative of that oil passing Sequence IVA, in any way, shape or form, nor being better in general.
I didn't see any info indicating that Amsoil was saying that the ASTM D4172 test had any kind of correlation to meeting, or was a substitution for a Sequence IVA test. Amsoil just throws in that D4172 test info.
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by Shannow
Pretty sure that it was from that paper, the different hydraulic equipment tests gave different orders of merit … thus my statements of the day that taking a Sequence IVA compliant oil, then putting it on one of these tests, then taking a test oil and beating it on the test was not indicative of that oil passing Sequence IVA, in any way, shape or form, nor being better in general.
I didn't see any info indicating that Amsoil was saying that the ASTM D4172 test had any kind of correlation to meeting, or was a substitution for a Sequence IVA test. Amsoil just throws in that D4172 test info.
No, in many of the ding-dong's that I've had with Pablo over the years, he's offered the TESTING that they use to claim that their oil meets or exceeds certain specs...always promised, never delivered.
Now, and relatively recently they are listing the actual sequence IVA test as being passed for some of their range.
As to their stance on 4 ball...
https://www.amsoil.com/lit/g3115.pdf
Comprehensive study on 5W30 oils
Quote
Four-Ball Wear Test (ASTM d4172 Mod.) According to the ASTM, the Four-Ball Wear Test "can be used to determine the relative wear preventive properties of lubricating fluids in sliding contact under the prescribed test conditions. No attempt has been made to correlate this test with balls in rolling contact. The user of this test method should determine to his own satisfaction whether results of this test procedure correlate with field performance or other bench test machines."1 Although not widely used as an engine oil test, the Four-Ball Wear Test provides a means of comparing relative wear-protection properties of lubricating oils. To better differentiate between lubricants, the severity of the test was increased with higher rpm and temperature (the test standard allows for running the test under modified parameters). The size of the scar as a result of the test indicates the level of wear protection the lubricant provides.
Results
Again, what's the relevance of how well your engine oil performs as a gear oil ?
Quote
Results Four-Ball Wear Test results indicate significant differences in relative wear protection between oils. The top four performers limited wear scars to under 0.40 mm. AMSOIL Signature Series Synthetic Motor Oil demonstrated the best wear protection in the Four-Ball Wear Test.
Originally Posted by Shannow
Pretty sure that it was from that paper, the different hydraulic equipment tests gave different orders of merit … thus my statements of the day that taking a Sequence IVA compliant oil, then putting it on one of these tests, then taking a test oil and beating it on the test was not indicative of that oil passing Sequence IVA, in any way, shape or form, nor being better in general.
I didn't see any info indicating that Amsoil was saying that the ASTM D4172 test had any kind of correlation to meeting, or was a substitution for a Sequence IVA test. Amsoil just throws in that D4172 test info.
No, in many of the ding-dong's that I've had with Pablo over the years, he's offered the TESTING that they use to claim that their oil meets or exceeds certain specs...always promised, never delivered.
Now, and relatively recently they are listing the actual sequence IVA test as being passed for some of their range.
As to their stance on 4 ball...
https://www.amsoil.com/lit/g3115.pdf
Comprehensive study on 5W30 oils
Quote
Four-Ball Wear Test (ASTM d4172 Mod.) According to the ASTM, the Four-Ball Wear Test "can be used to determine the relative wear preventive properties of lubricating fluids in sliding contact under the prescribed test conditions. No attempt has been made to correlate this test with balls in rolling contact. The user of this test method should determine to his own satisfaction whether results of this test procedure correlate with field performance or other bench test machines."1 Although not widely used as an engine oil test, the Four-Ball Wear Test provides a means of comparing relative wear-protection properties of lubricating oils. To better differentiate between lubricants, the severity of the test was increased with higher rpm and temperature (the test standard allows for running the test under modified parameters). The size of the scar as a result of the test indicates the level of wear protection the lubricant provides.
Results
Again, what's the relevance of how well your engine oil performs as a gear oil ?
Quote
Results Four-Ball Wear Test results indicate significant differences in relative wear protection between oils. The top four performers limited wear scars to under 0.40 mm. AMSOIL Signature Series Synthetic Motor Oil demonstrated the best wear protection in the Four-Ball Wear Test.
Rat's is (best we can make out from his ramblings) a modified Timken unit, that he controls the temperature on, and can get (visually) wear scar surface areas to 8 or 9 significant figures...when the originating test has an error band of 20%.
The problems with these tests, as I've pointed out before is that they are allowing wear to occur, then measuring the resultant load and scar area to come up with what their pundits are calling "film strength"...it's NOT the strength of the film in preventing wear, but a measurement of how small the wear scar that arises... that's not quite what you want to happen in your engine.
The problems with these tests, as I've pointed out before is that they are allowing wear to occur, then measuring the resultant load and scar area to come up with what their pundits are calling "film strength"...it's NOT the strength of the film in preventing wear, but a measurement of how small the wear scar that arises... that's not quite what you want to happen in your engine.
No but it's inevitable that wear will occur. Wouldn't we want to minimize it? Or am I totally misunderstanding what you are saying?
How hypocritical of Amsoil to go after the One Arm Bandit test but for years was marketing their oils wear performance based on the 4-ball wear test. Amsoil has finally after all these years started to use proper testing, such as the IVA test (which for the record every oil crushes by a long shot) and some simulation and field testing.
Originally Posted by Shannow
Rat's is (best we can make out from his ramblings) a modified Timken unit, that he controls the temperature on, and can get (visually) wear scar surface areas to 8 or 9 significant figures...when the originating test has an error band of 20%.
Yep, I'm sure you recall this thread, and the various data bar graphs I created of Rat's top ranked 100 oils data to show how his data would stack up with different sig-figs and error bars. With less significant measurement accuracy and large possible error, the data basically becomes useless.
Not sure what the advertised error is of the 4-ball test vs the Timken test, but they are probably close to each other in terms of test repeatability and error.
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/foru...log-qsud-better-than-mobil-1#Post4342285
Rat's is (best we can make out from his ramblings) a modified Timken unit, that he controls the temperature on, and can get (visually) wear scar surface areas to 8 or 9 significant figures...when the originating test has an error band of 20%.
Yep, I'm sure you recall this thread, and the various data bar graphs I created of Rat's top ranked 100 oils data to show how his data would stack up with different sig-figs and error bars. With less significant measurement accuracy and large possible error, the data basically becomes useless.
Not sure what the advertised error is of the 4-ball test vs the Timken test, but they are probably close to each other in terms of test repeatability and error.
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/foru...log-qsud-better-than-mobil-1#Post4342285
Found this guide to all the ASTM standards...
Google link to all the ASTM standards for petroleum products
Google link to all the ASTM standards for petroleum products
Originally Posted by Shannow
Found this guide to all the ASTM standards...
Google link to all the ASTM standards for petroleum products
Nice find ... downloaded for future reference.
Found this guide to all the ASTM standards...
Google link to all the ASTM standards for petroleum products
Nice find ... downloaded for future reference.
Tom NJ
$100 Site Donor 2026
Originally Posted by Shannow
Found this guide to all the ASTM standards...
Google link to all the ASTM standards for petroleum products
Linky no worky
Found this guide to all the ASTM standards...
Google link to all the ASTM standards for petroleum products
Linky no worky
Originally Posted by Tom NJ
Originally Posted by Shannow
Found this guide to all the ASTM standards...
Google link to all the ASTM standards for petroleum products
Linky no worky
When I click the link, I get a PDF download message ... so you'd have to download the PDF then open it up.
Originally Posted by Shannow
Found this guide to all the ASTM standards...
Google link to all the ASTM standards for petroleum products
Linky no worky
When I click the link, I get a PDF download message ... so you'd have to download the PDF then open it up.
Redline makes the best gear oils and ATF imho
Originally Posted by buster
How hypocritical of Amsoil to go after the One Arm Bandit test but for years was marketing their oils wear performance based on the 4-ball wear test. Amsoil has finally after all these years started to use proper testing, such as the IVA test (which for the record every oil crushes by a long shot) and some simulation and field testing.
^^^^^^^
Really good post by buster.
How hypocritical of Amsoil to go after the One Arm Bandit test but for years was marketing their oils wear performance based on the 4-ball wear test. Amsoil has finally after all these years started to use proper testing, such as the IVA test (which for the record every oil crushes by a long shot) and some simulation and field testing.
^^^^^^^
Really good post by buster.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by Shannow
Found this guide to all the ASTM standards...
Google link to all the ASTM standards for petroleum products
Nice find ... downloaded for future reference.
+1
Originally Posted by Shannow
Found this guide to all the ASTM standards...
Google link to all the ASTM standards for petroleum products
Nice find ... downloaded for future reference.
+1
Tom NJ
$100 Site Donor 2026
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
When I click the link, I get a PDF download message ... so you'd have to download the PDF then open it up.
Ah, found it - Thanks. I always forget to look there.
Very useful document!
When I click the link, I get a PDF download message ... so you'd have to download the PDF then open it up.
Ah, found it - Thanks. I always forget to look there.
Very useful document!
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