Amsoil ALM 5w20 - 12,415 miles - 07 Honda Civic EX

[Artem]

Originally Posted By: Brons2
The calcium went up 400 PPM in the last 2300 miles? That doesn't make any sense.


This current report is from a New fill. The previous fill got mixed with the leftover oil from the sample before that, which was Amsoil OE, which has MUCH less calcium.

 

[Artem]

Originally Posted By: buster
Quote:


For engine oils it's fine to just look at TBN with the following condemnation limits:

Blackstone Labs - TBN drops to 1/4* of baseline value....



With that said, this oil is still perfectly good IMO.


This oil starts out @ 12.6 TBN. I'm at 2.2 after adding 1/3rd quart of oil @ 8,000 miles as top off.

Although I agree with you that the oil is still perfectly good, but with those condemnation limits in mind, it's also the perfect time to change this oil before it begins to oxidize.

 

[ltslimjim]

That's interesting because Black Stone Labs themselves say a value over 1 is always enough TBN remaining.

However, I'm sure there are ways to figure out if the current TAN reading is harmful or not. I mean, what is the baseline 'typically' for virgin of this flavor Amsoil?

 

[Artem]

Is imagine its the same as the AZO VOA I posted earlier this year. TAN starts are 3.6 if I remember correctly.

 

[tribocessive]

i would describe it as "traces of iron;" no one can deny the greatness of amsoil or honda engines.

 

[Artem]

^Nicely said.

 

[Artem]

Originally Posted By: ltslimjim
That's interesting because Black Stone Labs themselves say a value over 1 is always enough TBN remaining.


I know Blackstone insists that there's enough active additives to keep going but I personally am only comfortable going to 2.0 TBN. That leaves me with plenty of room for error as well as help keep the block cleaner, I'd imagine.

 

[ltslimjim]

Originally Posted By: Artem
Originally Posted By: ltslimjim
That's interesting because Black Stone Labs themselves say a value over 1 is always enough TBN remaining.


I know Blackstone insists that there's enough active additives to keep going but I personally am only comfortable going to 2.0 TBN. That leaves me with plenty of room for error as well as help keep the block cleaner, I'd imagine.


Oh, I'm only really talking in regards to the information quoted by buster as to the 'condemnation limits' of remaining TBN compared to initial TBN.

I also like to change a little bit early, but it still is lower than the 'recommendation' according to the information quoted.

 

[Artem]

Exactly. The starting TBN of Amsoil's SS Line of oils is 12.6.

Running it down to 1.0 on their scale might make full use of the oil but it's technically way below the recommended condemnation limit.

I agree that if the wear rates stay low, running it to 1.0 TBN shouldn't hurt a thing but i still prefer to change the oil a bit earlier.

 

[tribocessive]

don't some of the experts say that once you lose 2/3rds of your original TBN it's time to change your oil? then there's this thing about high-ester based synthetic oils giving you a high TAN; still trying to make sense out of it all.

 

[Artem]

Same here man... I don't know who to listen too.

 

[ltslimjim]

Originally Posted By: tribocessive
don't some of the experts say that once you lose 2/3rds of your original TBN it's time to change your oil? then there's this thing about high-ester based synthetic oils giving you a high TAN; still trying to make sense out of it all.


Well, that seems to be more straightforward advice; basic, and probably best when applied to conventional oil.

However, that is just my opinion based on reading here for a couple years now. Some of that can be associated with base oils, additives that may affect initial TAN for example. (for one that relies on changing oil once TBN falls below TAN)

If 'all things' look good in the UOA, running the TBN of a full synthetic down to 2 consistently(as per the Black Stone method for testing TBN) will not harm your engine in any way. It would take things such as a clogged PCV system but it's only an indirect way; needing fresh oil to 'mask' by keeping clean the issue of running the OCI out.

Yet, the whole point is to show that other information would likely also start to show itself such as insols before any serious depositing were to accumulate. And again, that would be as a result of something that is affecting an extended OCI; aka a troublesome application.

OR hopefully the purpose of the UOA in general, monitoring for potential problems, is thus accomplished.

 

[buster]

I'm going to ask around a bit for more info on this TBN/TAN issue.

 

[Artem]

Awesome, post the info when you get some.

 

[buster]

Will do.

Have you ever thought of trying the Amsoil SS 10w30? It may hold up a bit better.

 

[Artem]

In an engine originally spec'd for 5w20?! (the same engine which now specs 0w20 in 2012 models)

I can try the 10w30 in the Scion tC but not the Civic.

 

[FZ1]

12k max. Nice motor,nice oil,nice drive.

 

[Artem]

Why you say that? You don't think i should go longer?

 

[Artem]

Finally received the UOA from Oil Analyzers...

This is the first time i did a double sample of the same oil and is the first time dealing with Oil Analyzers. Let me know what you guys think. I don't understand why they flagged Boron. All my previous samples of Amsoil showed the same level of Boron.

For some reason, a VOA of AZO showed Boron @ 232 from Blackstone.

here's the Blackstone report for easy comparison

 

[Artem]

I'm glad to see that both labs recommended continued use, up to 15k miles before sampling again. I might just get back into extended OCIs once the current stash of Amsoil XL and OE are depleted.