Amsoil 5w-30 vs Mobil 1, 5w-30 supersyn
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In the past 25 years of using and selling AMSOIL, I've found that in every case that they publish data on a competitors product, the data has been provided by an independent lab (confirming what their own lab has shown).
As Ted pointed out, AMSOIL has pretty strict quality control. All incoming ingredients are quarantined until they have been lab tested to insure they meet specs. The product is tested several times during and after blending, and samples from each batch are retained in-house.
As Ted pointed out, AMSOIL has pretty strict quality control. All incoming ingredients are quarantined until they have been lab tested to insure they meet specs. The product is tested several times during and after blending, and samples from each batch are retained in-house.
I use Amsoil products and I will as long as they continue to make them.
There are people out there that don't like Amsoil's marketing. Personnally, I don''t see much difference in the the way Amsoil sells their products than any other manufacturer. Most products go from manufacturer to wholesaler to jobber to retailer to consumer. Each of these levels makes a profit. So where is the difference? My 2 cents.
I know this is off the original subject, but just wanted to vent.
[ November 15, 2002, 11:37 AM: Message edited by: westex39 ]
There are people out there that don't like Amsoil's marketing. Personnally, I don''t see much difference in the the way Amsoil sells their products than any other manufacturer. Most products go from manufacturer to wholesaler to jobber to retailer to consumer. Each of these levels makes a profit. So where is the difference? My 2 cents.
I know this is off the original subject, but just wanted to vent.
[ November 15, 2002, 11:37 AM: Message edited by: westex39 ]
Patman
Staff member
It's true too, most of the people at Walmart or Autozone or wherever Mobil 1 is sold, don't know jack about oil either. But at the same time, they aren't just selling oil, while Amsoil dealers are. They should make it their business to learn more about the competition.
I also want to let it be known that I don't lump any of the Amsoil dealers on this board into that category, as all of you guys on here seem very open minded and will readily admit that there are other products out there just as good, and in some cases better. Not every oil can work in every car, which is why it's good to have so many choices like we do.
I honestly do like Amsoil, I actually used to be a dealer myself as far back as 1991, but I never did sell to anyone but me.
In reality, I bet if we did do real world testing on Mobil 1 vs Amsoil, the results would be way too close to call. I think the same is true with a lot of the oils we discuss on here.
I also want to let it be known that I don't lump any of the Amsoil dealers on this board into that category, as all of you guys on here seem very open minded and will readily admit that there are other products out there just as good, and in some cases better. Not every oil can work in every car, which is why it's good to have so many choices like we do.
I honestly do like Amsoil, I actually used to be a dealer myself as far back as 1991, but I never did sell to anyone but me.
In reality, I bet if we did do real world testing on Mobil 1 vs Amsoil, the results would be way too close to call. I think the same is true with a lot of the oils we discuss on here.
In the past Amsoil has used Southwest Research Institute in San Antonio, TX - SWRI - to do a lot of their engine testing. There are only a limited number of labs that are certified to do the standard API sequence tests.
I believe Amsoil also use the Lubrizol labs in Ohio to do some of their bench and engine testing ....
I believe Amsoil also use the Lubrizol labs in Ohio to do some of their bench and engine testing ....
Patman:
I'm not a Amsoil dealer. I'm not so naive to think that some Amsoil dealers don't know jack about the products they are selling. Personally, I have talked to some that are not all that great. This also applies to others that sell other brands of lubricants. In some cases I have asked questions that came from this forum and either got a bunch of BS or out and out lies. That's what I like about this forum, it gives you some knowledge to ask the right questions and know if you are being lied to or not.
I have never used the Amsoil oil for the extended drain. I don't trust any oil for 25,000 miles. However, I do use the one year schedule. Since I only drive about 5000 miles a year on each of our two vehicles I believe it will stand up to that. I do the 6 months oil filter change. This is probably over kill, but it won't hurt anything.
Regards,
westex39
I'm not a Amsoil dealer. I'm not so naive to think that some Amsoil dealers don't know jack about the products they are selling. Personally, I have talked to some that are not all that great. This also applies to others that sell other brands of lubricants. In some cases I have asked questions that came from this forum and either got a bunch of BS or out and out lies. That's what I like about this forum, it gives you some knowledge to ask the right questions and know if you are being lied to or not.
I have never used the Amsoil oil for the extended drain. I don't trust any oil for 25,000 miles. However, I do use the one year schedule. Since I only drive about 5000 miles a year on each of our two vehicles I believe it will stand up to that. I do the 6 months oil filter change. This is probably over kill, but it won't hurt anything.
Regards,
westex39
TooSlick,
There is just one "little flaw" in your in your information: Mobil 1 SuperSyn 5W-30 has a Flash Point of 455°F NOT 435°F
[ November 15, 2002, 02:08 PM: Message edited by: Scott in WI ]
Amsoil has some good products; Amsoil has some lousy products. Amsoil has some good dealers; Amsoil has many bad, misinformed, unreasonable dealers. Its been "proven" from real life use on this board that the Amsoil statement of 25k or 35k oil changes dont work and are misleading uninformed users (in a mechanically sound engine of course!). This proof blows away many of their "cost savings" of extended drains at the cost of increased wear. If a company makes a statement that is proven wrong, its hard to trust "anything" they say.
A local NAPA store sells a few Amsoil products. If you ask them about it, I get the same answer I'd get from a Wal-Mart or Target employee...It's supposed to be good stuff!". At least with Mobil, I can call and have someone familiar with the product answer technical questions.
Let the buyer beware!
A local NAPA store sells a few Amsoil products. If you ask them about it, I get the same answer I'd get from a Wal-Mart or Target employee...It's supposed to be good stuff!". At least with Mobil, I can call and have someone familiar with the product answer technical questions.
Let the buyer beware!
Scott in WI,
If you look at posted spec sheets for lubricants you'll notice they represent "typical technical properties". In addition to this you will often see the statement that these are "subject to normal manufacturing variation and do not represent a specification" In other words, they can and do change from batch to batch.
The data from this series of bench tests is most likely from a bottle or bottles that were purchased off the shelf somewhere and tested. So it is entirely possible that they would vary slightly from a posted spec sheet. BTW, this is true of every oil manufacturer, including Amsoil.
If you look at the "Virgin Oil Analysis" results that are posted on this site, you will see that the numbers often vary from spec sheets that are posted on various websites. In fact, on the Maxima.Org oil analysis spreadsheet, there are API licensed formulations that show phosphorus levels significantly higher than 1000 ppm, which is a big no no ....
Send a bottle of the 5w-30 supersyn to Dyson Analysis and have them test the flashpoint. I would not at all be surprised if it varied from posted specs by 10F-20F, in either direction.
If you look at posted spec sheets for lubricants you'll notice they represent "typical technical properties". In addition to this you will often see the statement that these are "subject to normal manufacturing variation and do not represent a specification" In other words, they can and do change from batch to batch.
The data from this series of bench tests is most likely from a bottle or bottles that were purchased off the shelf somewhere and tested. So it is entirely possible that they would vary slightly from a posted spec sheet. BTW, this is true of every oil manufacturer, including Amsoil.
If you look at the "Virgin Oil Analysis" results that are posted on this site, you will see that the numbers often vary from spec sheets that are posted on various websites. In fact, on the Maxima.Org oil analysis spreadsheet, there are API licensed formulations that show phosphorus levels significantly higher than 1000 ppm, which is a big no no ....
Send a bottle of the 5w-30 supersyn to Dyson Analysis and have them test the flashpoint. I would not at all be surprised if it varied from posted specs by 10F-20F, in either direction.
Hapuna Beach
You stated that Amsoil has some lousy products. Would you mind telling me which ones they are?
Why do you feel that these products are substandard?
Thanks,
Westex
You stated that Amsoil has some lousy products. Would you mind telling me which ones they are?
Why do you feel that these products are substandard?
Thanks,
Westex
Hi Westex,
Foam Air Filters that degrade and crumble within 2 years, Auto Trans fluid that meets both GM and Chrysler specs (totally different frictional coefficients), Propylene Glycol antifreeze (they jumped on the bandwagon when it was the "environmental thing to do")- overpriced and not recommended by many automakers today, Windshield Protectant that isn't any better than Rain-X, a whole range of Motor Oils that claim 25k or 35k change intervals (not). Might want to throw in the vitamins and fertilizer while we're at it!
Perhaps I could have used the word "value", as all of these products will work for some period of time, and to some degree. But there are much better products out there, more widley available, and typically for less cost for the informed consumer.
Foam Air Filters that degrade and crumble within 2 years, Auto Trans fluid that meets both GM and Chrysler specs (totally different frictional coefficients), Propylene Glycol antifreeze (they jumped on the bandwagon when it was the "environmental thing to do")- overpriced and not recommended by many automakers today, Windshield Protectant that isn't any better than Rain-X, a whole range of Motor Oils that claim 25k or 35k change intervals (not). Might want to throw in the vitamins and fertilizer while we're at it!
Perhaps I could have used the word "value", as all of these products will work for some period of time, and to some degree. But there are much better products out there, more widley available, and typically for less cost for the informed consumer.
Hapuna wrote:
Dealers are knowledgeable as they want to be. If an Amsoil (or other brand for that matter) dealer wants to not learn that their own choice. I chose to try to learn. I have a BS is Chemistry so I often want the info cut to the quick, not sugar coated with marketing crap. I critisize Amsoil as necessary. I detest AJ at times. I don't fit their mold real well. I hardly make much money when I sell product. It totally sucks that I have to buy marketing materials from Amsoil HQ, so I pretty much don't buy the paperwork stuff anymore. It costs me $2 to send a commercial application out of HQ, with no guarantees.
If I find better products I recommend them. For, example I am exploring Auto-Rx. I have had good experience with Lube-Guard in ATF, even Amsoil ATF so I recommend that. Eventually I would like to provide a wide range of lubes and knowledge. Amsoil has no contract preventing this.
I also don't think the 25-35K change interval is for all cars, but some folks do it all the time with no issues - the best is with analysis and a bypass filter.
Anyhow ,good exchange here,thanks to BobItOG!
Why can't you do this with Amsoil? I call all the time to ask questions I don't know. In fact the website/email Q&A is particularly helpful.
Dealers are knowledgeable as they want to be. If an Amsoil (or other brand for that matter) dealer wants to not learn that their own choice. I chose to try to learn. I have a BS is Chemistry so I often want the info cut to the quick, not sugar coated with marketing crap. I critisize Amsoil as necessary. I detest AJ at times. I don't fit their mold real well. I hardly make much money when I sell product. It totally sucks that I have to buy marketing materials from Amsoil HQ, so I pretty much don't buy the paperwork stuff anymore. It costs me $2 to send a commercial application out of HQ, with no guarantees.
If I find better products I recommend them. For, example I am exploring Auto-Rx. I have had good experience with Lube-Guard in ATF, even Amsoil ATF so I recommend that. Eventually I would like to provide a wide range of lubes and knowledge. Amsoil has no contract preventing this.
I also don't think the 25-35K change interval is for all cars, but some folks do it all the time with no issues - the best is with analysis and a bypass filter.
Anyhow ,good exchange here,thanks to BobItOG!
Foam air filters that break down in two years? Haven't seen that one. Mine are four years old.
Universal ATF works, and meets both specs. Don't see the problem there.
Sorta agree on the coolant. Never sell or use it. But automakers have recommended Dex-Cool to the detriment of some cars, so be carefull.
Never tried the WS stuff. But then again I think Rain-X is "not very good" (expletive deleted).
The ONLY oil that is 35K is the Series 2000 0W-30, 25K is for the 5W-30 and 10W-30 the rest are much less intervals. So I'm not sure where you are going with that.
The Vitamins? I wish AJ would just knock it==== off. I am NOT selling Vitamins (well unless you wants some!) I get the brochures all the time. I wonder if the erectile stuff really works?
(edited and apology for fowl language)
[ November 15, 2002, 10:08 PM: Message edited by: Pablo ]
Pablo,
What testing lab do they use for your last item?
What testing lab do they use for your last item?
Ken,
On the back of the spec sheet it says: "Amsoil Series 2000 Synthetic 0w-30 motor oil surpasses the requirements of the following specifications and may be used in engines requiring an oil that meets any of these requirements:"
It then goes on to list all the US, European and JASO specs ....
I would imagine they would maintain the documentation on file to support these claims, if the need arises ....That would be testing of the performance additives along with any basestock interchange guidelines they may have used to arrive at the final formulation.
[ November 15, 2002, 06:51 PM: Message edited by: TooSlick ]
On the back of the spec sheet it says: "Amsoil Series 2000 Synthetic 0w-30 motor oil surpasses the requirements of the following specifications and may be used in engines requiring an oil that meets any of these requirements:"
It then goes on to list all the US, European and JASO specs ....
I would imagine they would maintain the documentation on file to support these claims, if the need arises ....That would be testing of the performance additives along with any basestock interchange guidelines they may have used to arrive at the final formulation.
[ November 15, 2002, 06:51 PM: Message edited by: TooSlick ]
Patman
Staff member
Problem is, Amsoil is claiming 25-35k WITHOUT a bypass filter, but just the regular spin on filters. Any synthetic oil can go 25-35k with a bypass filter on it. They really should change their 25-35k claims down to 15-20k (15k for the regular stuff, 20 for the Series 2000 and 3000)
In the Maxima.org spreadsheet, look for user name iwannabmw under the 95-99 section. That car used Mobil 1 5W-30 back to back with Amsoil 5W-30 for 8K under some pretty extreme conditions. The wear numbers are very similar, the interesting difference lies in the viscosities of the oils.
A sample of the conditions the oil was operated under are viewable from
slide.mov
nhis3.mov
nhis4.mov
[ November 16, 2002, 02:15 PM: Message edited by: BOBISTHEOILGUY ]
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