Amsoil recently did some bench testing comparisons of their regular 5w-30 - ASL - to the current
5w-30 supersyn formulation. The actual test results are on their website, but this is how it turned
out:
Noack Volatility:
Amsoil 5w-30, 4.9% weight loss
SS 5w-30, 9.17% weight loss
Since Amsoil buys their PAO basestocks from ExxonMobil, this is very interesting ....
Flash Point:
Amsoil 5w-30, 446F
SS 5w-30, 435F
Four Ball wear test @ 150C/40kg/1800 rpms for 1 hr:
Amsoil 5w-30, .40 mm
SS 5w-30, .60 mm
Amsoil works with Lubrizol to develop their additive chemistries, while ExxonMobil develops theirs in-house.
Pour Point:
Amsoil 5w-30, -60F
SS 5w-30, -54F
TBN - total base number
Amsoil 5w-30, 12.35
SS 5w-30, 8.45
[ November 14, 2002, 02:43 PM: Message edited by: TooSlick ]
Amsoil 5w-30 vs Mobil 1, 5w-30 supersyn
- Thread starter TooSlick
- Start date
- Status
Patman
Staff member
Those numbers for SuperSyn don't look at all like the published numbers we've seen on here, especially the TBN. It's shown much higher on virgin analysis results (and used ones too) than that showing.
On Amsoil's website I see a NOACK volatility of 6.9% which sounds more reasonable. I'm suspicious of Amsoil's 4-ball tests. I've heard that M1 performs better at certain loads and worse at others. Naturally Amsoil will only show us the tests where Amsoil performed better.
I still don't undertand if Amsoil is so great, why isn't it more readily available?
Patman
Staff member
quote:Just because an oil isn't sold in stores doesn't mean a thing. Just look at Schaeffer oil, it's definitely one of the best, and you'll probably never find it at Walmart in this lifetime. Same with Zaino polishes. Companies often don't want to get too big, then they'll lose control of their quality. Both Amsoil and Schaeffer oil are smaller companies and as such they probably have way more control on their product compared to Exxon/Mobil or Pennzoil/Quaker State for example.
Originally posted by slickracer: I still don't undertand if Amsoil is so great, why isn't it more readily available?
I like Amsoil and their products. I just received my Amsoil Action News with this shootout between Amsoil ASL 5W-30 and the M1 5W-30 SS. Unfortunately, Amsoil doesn't tell whether they peformed the tests in house, if not at what testing firm, etc, etc.
I wish that Amsoil would also publish the exact parameters and conditions of each test in detail or post a link to where the standard is published. It would be helpful for the testing illiterate such as myself.
In essence if this comparison is something to really cheer about with the big brass band playing, then I'd expect Amsoil to devote more than one page of space in their newsletter. It's a great quickie page for sales literature and their dealers, but for oil skeptics (such as those who live here) it probably won't sway many people.
I realize it will never be sold by Walmart, etc, but how about NAPA or another chain. Isn't Royal Purple available at NAPA?
Jay,
The spec sheet on the Amsoil website is from October of 2001 ...this test data represents their latest batch runs on this formulation. I would agree that the TBN on the supersyn formulation looks pretty low, based on oil analysis data I've seen. As for the four ball test, the parameter #3 conditions are much more severe than the standard parameter #2 conditions - 75C/40kg/1200 rpms for 1 hr. When tested under these conditions the supersyn yields a wear scar of .35 mm, which is pretty good. I do think an oil temp of 302F is more realistic than 167F, when you consider valvetrain and upper cylinder lubrication.
There have been some analyses posted on this site that indicated the regular Amsoil 5w-30/10w-30 were not holding up in some of the modern engine designs over long drain intervals. I suspect Amsoil has reformulated ASL and ATM and are using more robust additive chemistries to address this issue.
Slickracer,
Amsoil is widely available in the US and Canada - just look in the yellow pages, under: "Oils, Lubricating". Here in Huntsville, Alabama which has a population of 160,000, there are 6-7 retail outlets that carry their products.
[ November 14, 2002, 04:11 PM: Message edited by: TooSlick ]
Another note in the Action News addresses the point that their will be a price increase of all Amsoil products on 1 Jan 03. So any pending purchases should be made before that time to beat the increases.
59 Vetteman,
The recent issue of Lubricants World indicated that basestock prices are going up, so that's where the price increase comes from.
When I started using Amsoil in 1978, it was $5.95/qt, so I think they have done pretty well with holding prices. I think dealer prices will go up about 15 cents a qt for the regular stuff and 25 cents a qt for the Series 2000/3000 oils ....
Isn't the 4-ball test meaningless for motor oils?
For tests that are significant for your engine, the European ACEA specs are the toughest. Amsoil's products meet the weak ACEA A1 at best and most, including the 5W-30 aren't rated (Amsoil's diesel 5W-30 is rated ACEA A3). Mobil 1 5W-30 meets the very tough ACEA A5. Only ACEA A3 is tougher for gasoline engines. Mobil 1 0W-40 meets A3, and Schaeffer's 7000 line is the lowest price A3 rated oil I've found.
Ken
Ken,
The regular Amsoil 5w-30 and 10w-30 formulations now meet the ACEA A3/B3/B4 specs - the latest packaging on the quart and gallons jugs now shows this - I just got in a couple of cases of the 0w-30 and 10w-30 for one of my local retail accounts. They also meet the factory fill requirements of Porsche,BMW and Mercedes 229.3. The Series 2000, 0w-30 also meets these same specs ....The XL-7500 series stuff is still ACEA A1/B1 rated ....
Hence my comment about reformulating these products ....
TooSlick
[ November 14, 2002, 05:30 PM: Message edited by: TooSlick ]
I never use the oil but I have used the transfluid and it seems to hold up well. I saw Amsoil on the shelf at a Murrays Auto in Aurora Illinois a month or so ago. Don't know if it was the real stuff or the new blend. RW
Ken - last I heard and saw Amsoil's motor oil offering do meet the toughest ACEA tests (I agreed these standards are much hardier than the minimilist API standards) But I have seen other forums bash on Amsoil for not meeting these Euro standards - when it just ain't so.
My comment on the M1 results are it's too small of a sample size.
quote:My local town NAPA sells Amsoil, as does a chain in the PNW called GI Joes.
Originally posted by slickracer: I realize it will never be sold by Walmart, etc, but how about NAPA or another chain. Isn't Royal Purple available at NAPA?
quote:ISO 9000 does not guaranty process control it only means you have a quality system, and 9002 says they basically aren't doing design under teh same 9000 umbrella. I don't think Amsoil rigged the test, I actually believe the results, but common science sense says a sample of one is not a trend
Originally posted by TooSlick: Pablo, Both Amsoil and ExxonMobil are ISO 9002 certified ...I would hope there isn't THAT much batch to batch variation in their finished product![[Frown]](images/icons/frown.gif)
![[stretch]](/forums/graemlins/gr_stretch.gif)
Pablo,
Take a couple of bottles of Amsoil at random and do some baseline testing on them. You will find the results are extremely consistent from batch to batch for a given formulation. The viscosity @ 100C and TBN are spot on the published specs and the additive levels don't vary much at all ....
I strongly suggest visiting Amsoils' lab and processing plant in Superior, WI ...I think you'll be impressed.
TooSlick
[ November 14, 2002, 06:08 PM: Message edited by: TooSlick ]
Dragboat,
I do think that Amsoil may use a higher molecular weight basestock blend than Mobil, but a Noack of 4.9% vs 9.2% is a big difference for these two oils, since they are both supposed to be PAO/Ester blends. I'd bet the Noack of the SS 0w-30 is 10%-12%, which is why you are seeing some oil consumption issues with this product.
All the 0w-30/5w-30/10w-30 stuff is GF-3 and the Series 3000 diesel oil is as well ....
Fellas - I agree that there shouldn't be anywhere near that much variation from batch to batch. I'm just saying a bit larger sample makes it statistically more valid.
None of my Amsoil literature mentions a product change - but it sounds good to me.
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
