Amsoil 5W-30 (25k mile) - how many miles?

[metroplex]

Is it good for? The UOAs here seem to indicate that at 16k miles of normal driving the oil is either too thick or at 18k miles, there's a TBN of 0. How long can I really use this oil for mixed highway/city driving but mainly highway driving in a Ford 4.6L SOHC V8 and a 5.4L SOHC V8?

 

[metroplex]

I was just doing some analysis to figure out how to service my two engines as I'll be logging about 24,000 miles/year for each engine (Ford 4.6L SOHC V8 and Ford 5.4L SOHC V8). Using Mobil 1 5W-30 jugs and Motorcraft FL-820-S filters (changing the oil at about 8000+ miles and the filters every 4000+ miles), I'd spend about $203 (with taxes) buying from my local walmart. Using Amsoil ASL 5W-30 and a new SDF-11 filter at each change (changing the oil every 12,000 miles which is about every six months along with a filter) runs me a lot less than the $203 above. My concern is would the Amsoil ASL 5W-30 and SDF-11 handle this type of driving w/o causing significant damage? I could do a UOA at the end of 12k miles to determine it, but just from statistical trends - would ASL 5W-30 and the SDF-11 filter take this type of driving? As a matter of fact I'd be willing to use Amsoil Series 3000 5w-30 HD diesel oil if my engines can use it safely. Same intervals (12,000 miles w/ a new filter change at 12000 miles, or approx every 6 months). I think M1 5W-30 can't go more than 10k miles in most cases as I read that after 9k miles or so it starts to thin out. Any input would be appreciated. I don't trust Amsoil's wild claims (25k miles/1 year for the ASL) but it seems that if you take it with a big grain of salt it might work as some of the other Amsoil users have shown with their UOAs. [ June 17, 2003, 11:08 AM: Message edited by: metroplex ]

 

[Pablo]

I went 20K on ASL with no nasty results once....but I did just creep over 1 year (that's a LOT of driving). I don't hardly come close to that amount of driving in a year anymore. The TBN was around 5, wear metals really quite low. I actually don't think the ATM (10W-30) and ASL (5W-30) are all that wild of claims - for non-turbo, passenger cars, hwy driving, 25K miles in 1 year or less. (And filter changes/oil top up) The HDD 5W-30 should serve you well, I personally haven't tried this oil, but for gasoline the claim is 25K miles/1 year as well.

 

[msparks]

quote:

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Originally posted by metroplex: How long can I really use this oil for mixed highway/city driving but mainly highway driving in a Ford 4.6L SOHC V8 and a 5.4L SOHC V8?

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Amsoil recommends 1 year or 25,000 miles whichever comes first. Are you driving 25,000+ miles a year? If so, then I think you would be best suited with a by-pass filter system, and running the Series 2000 0w30 or the Series 3000 5w30. That said, before I put the by-pass on my F150, I had 18 months and around 10,000 on the Series 2,000 0w30 with only 1 filter change and my oil wasn't too bad.

 

[metroplex]

It seems I have no room for a bypass oil filter system, and the Amsoil Series 3000 appears to have a 25k/1 year interval for gas engines - same as the ASL 5W-30 only more expensive. The SEries 2000 0W-30 doesn't show very consistent results, and is more expensive than the ASL.

 

[Rat407]

What I don't understand is why the Series 2k 0w-30 didn't hold up to well with only a little over 8k in my 5.3. The driving is mostly highway back and forth to work. I don't drive full throttle either. Mostly at times I do the soft start and stop with speedlimit cruising to see just how well my gas mileage can be. I did get a solid 19mpg once, which isn't to bad for a full size 4X4. It also didn't hold up to well in my wifes 3.4 venture, but then it did have a little over 14k on that oil sample. Does it have a lot to do with the vehicle manufacture? My wifes driving is mostly country roads and the engine has ample time to get to full operating temp. It is just perplexing. If that is a good word to use. Just wondering. It would be nice to go longer on the oil changes since I put close to 20k a year on the vehicles. I figure this next sample in the Venture, which should be at Blackstone today some time since I mailed it on Friday. It has the latest sample from the Venture with 10w-30 in it. I guess we will see.

 

[metroplex]

I think its because the 0W-30 is being reformulated or something becuase as you have seen, it doesn't give consistent results. The ASL 5W-30 looks (to me) like the way to go, but I wanted to be sure I could use 5 qt of ASL + a Super Duty filter every 6 months (12,500 miles or so) w/o any problems or worries - like the oil thinning out to a 20 weight, thickening to a 40 weight, TBN dropping below 7, or high wear metal values. I will most likely do a UOA on the 4.6 as it's got almost 8000 miles (I did about 10-20 oil changes already) whereas the 5.4 has only 2200 miles and only 3 or 4 oil changes.

 

[msparks]

quote:

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Originally posted by metroplex: Hmm I see... so I guess a 6 month/12,5000 service interval for 6 qt of ASL + SDF-11 be safe for a Ford modular motor. That would equate to a case + 2 SDF-11's a year.

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I'm confused here, Exactly how many miles do you plan to drive?

 

[metroplex]

24,000 - 25,000 miles a year.

 

[msparks]

crap the pics I linked don't work. Sorry. I can send you some picks of a 2002 F150 King Ranch 4x4 with a dual remoted mounted no problem. [ June 17, 2003, 04:10 PM: Message edited by: msparks ]

 

[buster]

quote:

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What I don't understand is why the Series 2k 0w-30 didn't hold up to well with only a little over 8k in my 5.3. The driving is mostly highway back and forth to work.

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We are all trying to figure that out. I think they might have changed suppliers with this oil, but we'll never know. I'd go with what msparks said and try the S3k HD oil. It's there best. The regular Amsoil line is more consistant then S2k from what I've seen.You could also run Mobil 1 too with a bypass filter and probably get a good 20k out of it. I'd use 10w-30, Delvac 1 or 0w-40.

 

[highmiler]

If there was room enough for a bypass filter (dual filter setup) in my little Toyota Echo there must be room somewhere in your truck. In my case the filters are under the left front headlight assembly, behind the fender. Based on previous vehicles I owned (1989 Chev. C2500 and 2001 Chev. Caprice) that used exclusively Amsoil I would recommend ASL 5W-30 for 12000 and up to 15000 mile intervals. I used to do UOA's every 15k and the results would always be very good. I had the habit of replacing the full flow filter every 3 months (7.5k miles) so quite a bit of fresh oil was always added.

 

[metroplex]

On the E-250 w/ the 5.4L SOHC V8, the oil filter is bottom mounted, if I had hoses running there, I'd have a higher risk of a brush or object hitting that hose and tearing it loose. On the Crown Vic w/ the 4.6L SOHC V8, there really isn't much room to mount a bypass filter setup. My experience w/ routing oil hoses is that oil somehow manages to seep out of O-ring seals, etc... this occurs with the factory Police engine oil cooler. I'd feel safer just using the stock spin-on filter and changing the oil every 12,000 miles - but only if it's ok to do so w/ ASL. But from what I'm hearing right now, using the ASL every 12,500 miles w/ a new SDF-11 would be a good way to go - anyone disagree?

 

[greencrew]

I agree with msparks, your application is perfect for the by-pass filter. Just look at the high milage Subaru that just posted an analysis here using Amsoil s2k 0w-30 for 13,500 miles. To mount the dual by-pass filter from Amsoil you will need a bracket that can be ordered for $25 from the dieselsite. With the bracket it is an easy install in the perfect location. The hose is 12 to 14 inches, and the filters have easy access behind the front bumper. I have one on my 2001 F-150 5.4 and plan follow directions and change out three filters a year adding 3 quarts of fresh oil. I'll do an analysis once a year in June. I'm running 8 quarts of S2k 0w-30. I have teamed up with another F-150 owner to write up full detailed dirctions complete with pictures. Those filters look so easy to change, that I can't wait to do it.

 

[greencrew]

I agree, you'll never find a spot on the Crown Vic to mount a filter. I thought they both were a truck. If you off road the remote location is not a good idea because the bottom of the bumber is plastic. You could push the bumber into the filter if you bottom out the front. I don't think the hose is any more of a concern than the power steering hose that it runs next to, or the transmission cooler line on the other side. As for how many miles, maybe you need to be the one who runs it and do an analysis to find out. I know I'm interested in the results. I have less than 1000 miles on my Amsoil and I'll only put on 13k a year.

 

[metroplex]

quote:

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I don't think the hose is any more of a concern than the power steering hose that it runs next to, or the transmission cooler line on the other side.

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See that's the difference. I've never had any problems with ATF (PS fluid on the E-250 and Vic is just Mercon ATF) - I can use IDEAL hose clamps, Goodyear hoses, and nothing would go wrong. But with factory engine oil cooler hoses on a Police Interceptor, it seeps out over time. The o-rings start to give out. On a B&M 28,000GVW engine oil cooler, engine oil starts seeping out of the hose connections. I think engine oil is under more pressure than ATF or PS fluid (just a guess). With the E-250, the oil filter is mounted RIGHT UNDER the engine (vertically) - the FL-820-S is mounted vertically and if run an adapter w/ hoses, there's a BIG chance something is going to tear those hoses (object, debris, brush, etc) based on how the filter is mounted. I'm not sure if the F-series use the same style oil cooler as the E-series, but from what I saw (01-02 F-series 4.6 motor), the F-series don't use the same oil coolers. With the Crown Vic, there's no room to mount a bypass and I don't off-road in the Vic. The E-250 might see some minor off-roading tho The bypass filter idea sounds great but with its hefty price tag and introduction of many potential weak spots for the life blood of your engine outweigh the good aspects IMHO.

 

[greencrew]

metroplex, do you have 6 or more quarts of oil. If that is the case then I'd think that 12,000 miles on that oil would be a good number, and after analysis may prove to be conserevative. I have not seen or heard of any sludge problems with the 5.4. I treated mine with Auto-RX at 33k and cut open the filter after 1,200 miles and the filter was clean. Yes, the oil was black. I have a friend with a Crown vic 4.6 at 166k running Auto-RX right now. I'm not sure if I can coax him to cut open the filter. You didn't say what you are running now.

 

[msparks]

quote:

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Originally posted by metroplex: But from what I'm hearing right now, using the ASL every 12,500 miles w/ a new SDF-11 would be a good way to go - anyone disagree?

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Can't disagree with that. Sounds like you have made a good plan to me! Also sorry when you started talked 4.6L I immediately assumed F150 my Bad

 

[msparks]

quote:

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Originally posted by metroplex: [QUOTE] The bypass filter idea sounds great but with its hefty price tag and introduction of many potential weak spots for the life blood of your engine outweigh the good aspects IMHO.

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FYI, Amsoil is the only by-pass maker with this dual setup. Some folks don't know that they have a single filter by itself, that tapes into your oil sending unit. This is what I have installed on my VW TDI. There are several other makers of by-pass systems as well that work like this. Oil guard is another. Just to let you know.

 

[metroplex]

Hmm I see... so I guess a 6 month/12,5000 service interval for 6 qt of ASL + SDF-11 be safe for a Ford modular motor. That would equate to a case + 2 SDF-11's a year. The Ford 4.6 and 5.4 will see mostly highway use, but I do drive very aggressively (you can think the numerically high rear axle ratios for that). [ June 17, 2003, 12:25 PM: Message edited by: metroplex ]