It's simple... consumers largely stopped buying sedans and wagons. If there was a demand for them, they would still be on show room floors.
Am i the only one really disliking SUVs?
- Thread starter M104
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I love performance cars/manuals or DSG models (eg GTI over Golf). Otherwise a sedan, CUV, hatch or wagon are all the same to me. Get the job done and transportation. My wife's 2018 Tiguan is quite pleasant to drive and no complaints. That all being said the BMW X3 M did little for me vs driving wife's Tiguan. Yes quick but felt the same. No idea why rowing gears in GTI was more fun to me.
I enjoyed my wagon but decided to go sedan this last time. Was tired of dirty butt I guess, that thing was always dirty on the rear (it eventually wore grooves into the rear glass). Was louder, took longer to heat, never really cooled--but it was certainly a good fit for me at the time. Once I got my truck I didn't need that utility so... went to a ho-hum sedan. Been mostly happy with that.
AutoMechanic
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I was mainly referring to like the toughness and ruggedness of them isn’t there these days. I do agree with what you are saying though but still in my opinion the older the better.
AutoMechanic
Site Donor 2025
Anything older than about 2005 or so.
Me too.
I imagine others know what they like too, whether they are driving enthusiasts or not.
/thread. That says it all!!!
I think you're mistaken.
The BOF SUV we have, has a stronger frame, axles, and brakes than were ever available in it's history. Reliability hasn't suffered.
My truck has FAR more power, and load carrying and towing capability, than ever was available on the same 'model' previously. Not to mention it's a much nicer place to spend time, than previous models. Despite more capability, amenities and features, reliability has improved.
AutoMechanic
Site Donor 2025
Really? That’s the opposite of what I have found.
With all due respect, you've made it clear that your experience is limited. Which is fine. We all start somewhere.
I actually OWN the vehicles I'm referring to. And I owned previous versions in the past. As a former master tech, I know what the vehicles were in the past, and what they are now. I also have numerous friends and former colleagues who are still in the business. They see all the latest stuff regularly for service, AND they were around in the past to see the old stuff.
AutoMechanic
Site Donor 2025
Well that’s good. The only thing me and my mechanic friends have found better for modern cars, suvs, trucks etc is the safety is the only thing better. I know guys who have done this for 30 years and tell me cars are disposable these days which I feel is true and I know guys who have done this for 3-4 years which have told me the same things some of which own modern cars. I’m sure that some are better than others on all aspects. But based on my moms car and the cars I have worked on ehh I wanna say the same thing my friends said and that is to stay as far away as possible. We have had nothing but issues with my moms car really between radiators and serpentine belts. I haven’t had to do anything like that to the old stuff until it really gets some age on it. A radiator should not have failed as soon as it did in less than 3 years neither should a serpentine belt which was fraying when we bought it but they wanted to argue about it because the mechanic who I worked along side who was the one to look at it said he wouldn’t do it because of low warranty pay. So I guess it could go either way really. And I totally respect everything you have told me and your experience and I’m not doubting it one bit at all.
That’s not very old. I keep getting the impression you like stuff from the 50’s or 60’s? The reality is that we are in the 21st century.
Also, if you worked on cars from the old days you will know that they required a lot more attention that cars today. Your experience as a mechanic should confirm that. They were easy to work on but they got worked on quite a bit.
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I’m all for old cars yes. To me the older the better. I think the golden age for cars was the 90s because a lot of manufacturers stepped up their game. We have a 1994 Ford and it still has tons of original parts that haven’t given out yet and are still going strong and that helped a lot. But I think with all these computerized systems most people would rather fix mechanical issues then computer related issues which is how most if not all of the cars are today. Working on my beetle yes it needs some attention a lot more (especially on those distributors with points LOL) which is one thing I am happy they done away with a much better design that they had with no points. Even electronic ignition is better in that aspect. I enjoy working on it versus fixing computer related issues today though for the most part anyway.
Keep in mind though, the basic formula for what makes a 4Runner has never really changed and it's basically a niche vehicle at this point (practically no direct competitors in the US). Had Toyota pulled a Ford and decided to badge the Highlander as a 4Runner, you might feel differently. In your case, the replacement model is an improved version of the original idea. I can't go to a Ford dealer and get a brand new replacement for my Explorer. I can get something called an Explorer, but it's really an entirely different type of vehicle aside from being a wagon that is roughly midsize (new Explorers look huge next to old ones). At least they've gone back to RWD, but the Everest that the rest of the world gets is the new Explorer I want. The closest thing Ford is going to offer here is the new Bronco, which looks ridiculous and is expensive.
For those unfamiliar, this is an Everest, basically a Ranger SUV...
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
So back to the days of failing TFI modules, HEI modules and LIM gaskets? Back to transmissions that crapped the bed if you looked at them wrong, 400 miles of vacuum lines, Air Injection pumps, launching spark plugs (Ford Modular)...etc?
Specifically with FCA and GM, the LSx and the HEMI bring pushrod simplicity/reliability and meld it with higher power density, greater reliability, better fuel economy and better power curves than what was offered in their predecessors, and they are mated to, in most instances, far better gearboxes, like the ZF 8HP for example.
There was nothing more "disposable" than a Neon, J-Body or Tempo/Topaz except maybe the Nissan Sentra. The Ford Festiva was a tin can deathtrap. In the rust belt, Japanese cars disintegrated from rust. If you had a truck, odds are its headlights were total garbage, the GM trucks were notorious for resembling candles in a window for example. 200HP was a big deal in trucks and horrific gas mileage was the status quo. Nothing like a 160HP 305 with gas mileage in the single digits taking 5 minutes to get to cruising speed towing a trailer. You ever tow a car hauler with a 1988 305? I have, it's slow and thirsty and really exciting at night when you can't see. The 1998 5.4L in the F-series was 240HP, the current 5.0L makes close to 400!
A lot of the "old boys" tend to wear rose coloured glasses and the young bucks weren't around when the 80's and 90's stuff was relatively new. The old boys hate wrenching on stuff that's got more parts, requires greater skills to troubleshoot and has a lot more wiring. If they are really old they probably want their resistor module in the glovebox, a set of points and a quadrajet back. It's easy to conflate nostalgia with experience.
Oh yeah, those 90's cars were great until the timing belt sheared a few teeth off and destroyed the engine.
twouvakind
Site Donor 2025
Mom rides matter
AutoMechanic
Site Donor 2025
Well fortunately mine has a chain lol.
The only 90's car I had didn't make it past 100k.
Them interiors though...
The 23 year old floor mats need bathing, and the cruise control buttons are crusty (but functioning), but the seats are worth the risk of a 23 year old Ford V6 with three timing chains.
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