Aluminum flecks in oil filter

The Gen 3 has been a very solid engine. Timing chains are rarely mentioned. You did mention a noise which should be investigated. My GTI was very quiet.
It's the obvious go to and yes MK7 really has no timing chain issues.
 
So that's not the new MQB one so previous TSI that had timing chain tensioner issues.
Not going to lie and tell you I know the engine platform designations and the minute changes between them. I just fix them.

It did have the "Grey band" tensioner that's supposed to be the good one. Someone was in that area before me due to the amount of silicone that was present on the timing over. Wouldn't doubt that one of these "mechanics" around here changed tensioner only.

IMHO, if I was to get one for myself, I'd consider chain/guide/tensioner replacement every 60k as preventive maintenance just as I do the timing belts on my Subarus.

I think you should consider that as preventive maint also. Given the 2x the power level you're at with your mods, the paces you put that car through at tracks and on the "dragon"....having only a timing chain issue at 80k miles is a testament to the toughness of that platform and the well thought out mods and maintenance.

When you sell that car, I'm guessing it will read "ALWAYS BABIED, NEVER RACED OR ABUSED" .

Change the chain and keep enjoying it.
 
Which timing component would be making non-ferrous particles?

On some of the other cars the metal would come from the timing guide pivots. The aluminum guide pivot point goes oval and starts to wear the sloppier it gets.

Isnt the timing system on these cars all plastic or steel?

You could send the flakes themselves for analysis.
 
Not going to lie and tell you I know the engine platform designations and the minute changes between them. I just fix them.

It did have the "Grey band" tensioner that's supposed to be the good one. Someone was in that area before me due to the amount of silicone that was present on the timing over. Wouldn't doubt that one of these "mechanics" around here changed tensioner only.

IMHO, if I was to get one for myself, I'd consider chain/guide/tensioner replacement every 60k as preventive maintenance just as I do the timing belts on my Subarus.

I think you should consider that as preventive maint also. Given the 2x the power level you're at with your mods, the paces you put that car through at tracks and on the "dragon"....having only a timing chain issue at 80k miles is a testament to the toughness of that platform and the well thought out mods and maintenance.

When you sell that car, I'm guessing it will read "ALWAYS BABIED, NEVER RACED OR ABUSED" .

Change the chain and keep enjoying it.
The minute changes are actually really important here - the current gen 3 TSI engines have notable improvements/re-design of the timing chain/tensioner and it's why just don't hear about this issue...it was v. common on the last gen/MK6 TSIs and was the source of quite a few trashed engines. The forums/FB groups are void of any info b/c of it...this, if that's what it is, is a very rare occurrence including guys pushing 4-500 out of the gen 3 2.0s..I only found one thread on it on the main forum. I'll get to the bottom of it, if the tensioner is bad, I'll have the shop do the chains too and may swap in the MK6 Jetta GLI exhaust cam for good measure (more lift). I'm going to swing by next week and chat with him. I drove it this morning, quite, ran like a top, a few redline pulls, nothing to see here..hahahah

Won't need to worry, this car is a forever car and will likely end up with my 13 year old when he starts driving.
 
Which timing component would be making non-ferrous particles?

On some of the other cars the metal would come from the timing guide pivots. The aluminum guide pivot point goes oval and starts to wear the sloppier it gets.

Isnt the timing system on these cars all plastic or steel?

You could send the flakes themselves for analysis.
I'm guessing the timing chain cover itself.
 
Cut open my Mann oil filter for my Sportwagen today after changing the oil at about dead-on 5K miles/3 mos. Last UOA showed increased aluminum numbers, it was a mid-OCI UOA after a trip down to GA for a VW event where it was used hard on the roads with "dragon" in the name. Quite shocked to see so much aluminum (not magnetic). TBH - first time opening my filter so not sure of the baseline/normal here. I beat on my car and this change included substantial hooning as well as ~40 1/4 and 1/8 mile drag runs at the track this OCI. Turbo bearing? Rings? I'll be interested to see this UOA!

View attachment 113910
View attachment 113912
@AutoMechanic I would think the "wow" emogji is a bit more appropriate....
 
Not possible. If the tensioner was rattling that much (and allowing the chain to slap), it would have jumped time by now.
The more I stew on this - yes, I think your'e right...shouldn't hit the case and the chain values when you scan it are dead-on where they should be. So Al....bearings? Cam shaft-related? The noise isn't a red herring here, it was loud a few times and made me think "*** is that?" when I started it....it always went away and hasn't really come back except for a few times in the last 4 mos or so.
 
The more I stew on this - yes, I think your'e right...shouldn't hit the case and the chain values when you scan it are dead-on where they should be. So Al....bearings? Cam shaft-related? The noise isn't a red herring here, it was loud a few times and made me think "*** is that?" when I started it....it always went away and hasn't really come back except for a few times in the last 4 mos or so.
There are limited sources of aluminum and the camshaft isn't one of them. Pistons, bearings, if they are bi-metal, and perhaps guide material if the nylon has been worn away?
 
There are limited sources of aluminum and the camshaft isn't one of them. Pistons, bearings, if they are bi-metal, and perhaps guide material if the nylon has been worn away?
I was thinking camshaft bearing?
 
That would be unusual IMHO.
So here's where I am. Holding pattern right now...any damage done is done.

Noise started in April this year. Changed oil in May before a trip to GA and that UOA had normal aluminum. Pulled sample after GA trip (~2K mostly highway but lots of hooning on that trip) and that sample showed increased aluminum compared to previous results. Car went into my trust Euro/race shop for supension/chassis work in June and I ask them to look at it/the noise. They noted the timing chain was within spec per VCDS and I concur with my own scan data. I changed that oil last week and filter had lots of what I think is aluminum flecks. Sample of that oil has been sent in and I'll wait and see what this UOA shows, but should be higher than the mid-OCI check. I am swapping the current oil out once it has 500 miles on it based on some testing I'm doing with HPL; I'll cut that filter open and that oil will get a UOA. Car seems to make that rattle at start up only "once in a blue moon" and runs normally/has no power loss etc.

Sounds like it could be a number of things and I'm not convinced it's the timing chain but will see what the filter looks like in a few weeks when I change this oil out and see what Blackstone shows, then take these data to my shop and chat about it with them, need to get in there and have some tires mounted up to my new wheels anyway.

Appreciate the convo...keep it going for sure!
 
So here's where I am. Holding pattern right now...any damage done is done.

Noise started in April this year. Changed oil in May before a trip to GA and that UOA had normal aluminum. Pulled sample after GA trip (~2K mostly highway but lots of hooning on that trip) and that sample showed increased aluminum compared to previous results. Car went into my trust Euro/race shop for supension/chassis work in June and I ask them to look at it/the noise. They noted the timing chain was within spec per VCDS and I concur with my own scan data. I changed that oil last week and filter had lots of what I think is aluminum flecks. Sample of that oil has been sent in and I'll wait and see what this UOA shows, but should be higher than the mid-OCI check. I am swapping the current oil out once it has 500 miles on it based on some testing I'm doing with HPL; I'll cut that filter open and that oil will get a UOA. Car seems to make that rattle at start up only "once in a blue moon" and runs normally/has no power loss etc.

Sounds like it could be a number of things and I'm not convinced it's the timing chain but will see what the filter looks like in a few weeks when I change this oil out and see what Blackstone shows, then take these data to my shop and chat about it with them, need to get in there and have some tires mounted up to my new wheels anyway.

Appreciate the convo...keep it going for sure!
I noticed silicon seemed to be elevated too, correct? If so, that could be bearings if they are the bi-metal aluminum/silicon bearings. Otherwise, I'd be concerned that it could be piston material.
 
There are limited sources of aluminum and the camshaft isn't one of them. Pistons, bearings, if they are bi-metal, and perhaps guide material if the nylon has been worn away?
Really good point. It would have to be a hell of a failure for the guides to wear down to metal and the timing to be spot on.

Metal being gone from a piston....I do not see it.....they have some **** tough pistons.

My money is hpfp related.....I know this generation is not known for it.....buuuuut....
 
I noticed silicon seemed to be elevated too, correct? If so, that could be bearings if they are the bi-metal aluminum/silicon bearings. Otherwise, I'd be concerned that it could be piston material.
Yes noted that as well.
How about this? I didn’t see Sportwagen listed but are these the same motors? If the noise is coming from the top of the timing cover then it could be?

Cam adjuster.


Interesting. No faults but something to look at!
 
Back
Top