Alfa 2.0 15w50 stock,20w50 seems like the new norm

[jayg]

I'm just checking in here (as well as reading on the Alfa boards) about oil weights for my 87 Alfa Spider. These things call for 15w50 stock but most on the Alfa board go for a 20w50. These things also have a ridiculously large oil capacity (7+ qts) which helps for whatever oil is in it. Any Alfa people on here have any dissenting opinions?

This particular car is driven in GA heat and in mountains on extended driving sessions.

Any recommendations?

Thanks

 

[901Memphis]

Those engines should be running on a 5w30. Even Amsoil recommends their 0w30 for maximum performance.

They also recommend 10/15/20w-50 an an alternative.


Here is the application guide.

http://www.amsoil.com/mygarage/vehiclelookup.aspx?url2=1987+ALFA ROMEO+SPIDER VELOCE+A

 

[pscholte]

Originally Posted By: jayg
I'm just checking in here (as well as reading on the Alfa boards) about oil weights for my 87 Alfa Spider. These things call for 15w50 stock but most on the Alfa board go for a 20w50. These things also have a ridiculously large oil capacity (7+ qts) which helps for whatever oil is in it. Any Alfa people on here have any dissenting opinions?

This particular car is driven in GA heat and in mountains on extended driving sessions.

Any recommendations?

Thanks


Take good care of that beauty. I would get multiple opinions of what "the new normal" is for that engine: Alfa forums, here, oil company websites, Alfa website; you want that jewel to last given we can't get Alfa's here any more: or Renaults, or Peugeots, or Citroens or...not commenting on the desirability of each marque just the wonderful array of choices...

 

[jayg]

Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
Those engines should be running on a 5w30. Even Amsoil recommends their 0w30 for maximum performance.

They also recommend 10/15/20w-50 an an alternative.


Here is the application guide.

http://www.amsoil.com/mygarage/vehiclelookup.aspx?url2=1987+ALFA ROMEO+SPIDER VELOCE+A



Thus you can see my confusion. They should be running 0w30 for maximum performance but 20w50 is an accptable alternative. ???? Thats a pretty extreme span there.

 

[aquariuscsm]

How about 5W50?

 

[pscholte]

I think if I were going to choose a happy medium I would use a 5W-40 of proven heritage but I would still get opinions from multiple sources especially current Alf owners.

 

[jayg]

Originally Posted By: pscholte
I think if I were going to choose a happy medium I would use a 5W-40 of proven heritage but I would still get opinions from multiple sources especially current Alf owners.


The vast majority of people on the Alfa boards use 20W50 or some use Rotella 15W40 from what I see.

For a 7 qt sump, with the price of Rotella 15w40 I think that may be my best value.

 

[pscholte]

Originally Posted By: jayg
Originally Posted By: pscholte
I think if I were going to choose a happy medium I would use a 5W-40 of proven heritage but I would still get opinions from multiple sources especially current Alf owners.


The vast majority of people on the Alfa boards use 20W50 or some use Rotella 15W40 from what I see.

For a 7 qt sump, with the price of Rotella 15w40 I think that may be my best value.


I accord Present owners a lot of credibility.

 

[JHZR2]

Sounds like no different than how BMW and MB specified oil viscosities back in the day.

Keep in mind there was no ACEA A3 or higher robustness oils with better HT/HS specs and all.

Doesnt mean that there isnt something to be said about having a slightly heavier oil in there.

A good compromise IMO is a 5w-40 HDEO synthetic, or else some of the HM syn oils. I know that M1 10w-40 HM is ACEA A3, and the 10w-30 may be as well.

Id probably run M1 HM 10W-40 and call it a day with great confidence.

 

[CATERHAM]

Originally Posted By: jayg
Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
'

Thus you can see my confusion. They should be running 0w30 for maximum performance but 20w50 is an accptable alternative. ???? Thats a pretty extreme span there.

You're right it is a ridiculous extreme.

Your viscosity choice should be based on oil back pressure.
I believe your car does have an OP gauge.
If you can maintain adequate OP on a 0W/5W-30 then there are only disadvantages of running anything heavier.
You're undoubtedly running something fairly heavy now and I presume have no problem maintaining adequate OP even after a lengthy mountain blat.
I'd suggest M1 0W-40 for it's high viscosity index and reasonably high ZDDP level. If you're OP if still fine with this oil then you could try something a bit lighter like Castrol (GC) 0W-30.

 

[jayg]

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Originally Posted By: jayg
Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
'

Thus you can see my confusion. They should be running 0w30 for maximum performance but 20w50 is an accptable alternative. ???? Thats a pretty extreme span there.

You're right it is a ridiculous extreme.

Your viscosity choice should be based on oil back pressure.
I believe your car does have an OP gauge.
If you can maintain adequate OP on a 0W/5W-30 then there are only disadvantages of running anything heavier.
You're undoubtedly running something fairly heavy now and I presume have no problem maintaining adequate OP even after a lengthy mountain blat.
I'd suggest M1 0W-40 for it's high viscosity index and reasonably high ZDDP level. If you're OP if still fine with this oil then you could try something a bit lighter like Castrol (GC) 0W-30.



Thanks for the suggestions everybody!

The oil pressure gauge in the car works but isnt super accurate, the oil pressure light will flicker or stay on at idle on most of these cars that have oil pressure issues. I never have any lights flicker or have any abnormal OP issues and I was running 5w30 Castrol GTX in it when I first got it.

I'd like as much protection as I can get for this motor , not because its a particularly high performance motor but parts can be very expensive outside of normal maintenance items.

Based on current use, I plan on going about 6k miles and 2 years on the oil plus topping off when necessary.

So does everybody think 15w50 was specced originally for added oil pressure and additional bottom end protection?

 

[Shannow]

Remember, however, that oil pressure isn't what lubricates your engine, it is the mechanism through which oil is delivered to all parts of your engine.

 

[jayg]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
Remember, however, that oil pressure isn't what lubricates your engine, it is the mechanism through which oil is delivered to all parts of your engine.


Right, but changing viscositys and weight should have some effect on oil pressure that the oil pump provides.

 

[901Memphis]

How about Rotella T6 synthetic 5w40? Its a happy medium in between the two specs and plenty robust, and readily available at walmart for like $21 a jug.

Mobil 1 HM 10w40 is another EXCELLENT choice, however its harder to find in jugs at all walmarts.

Heck you could even run M1 0w40 Euro in it probably with excellent results.

 

[fdcg27]

It's too bad that 20W-50 remains available, since there is this fascination with using it in engines that really don't need it.
According to Doug Hillary, the 20W-50 grade was developed specifically to address oil shearing in the original shared-sump Mini.
It was later adopted as the grail for warm weather by Mercedes and BMW. I drank this Kool-Aide with my last Mecedes, running GTX 20W-50 summers.
Alas, the 20W-50 grade is not required in almost any engine that isn't worn down to beaterhood.
A 10W-40 should be all you'd need, and given the few miles you put on your car, an expensive synthetic would be a waste, and will protect the engine no better.
You might try what I've found to work in my old BMW.
Nextgen Maxlife 10W-40 works very well in the old BMW, and I have a UOA to back that up.
It would probably also work well in your Alfa.
The twin-cam Alfa four was an ancient design when your car was new.
Alfa surely didn't recommend a 20W-50 when the engine was new tech.
You have a very late example of that generation Alfa.
They are very pretty cars and are not bad to drive.
I've always wanted one like yours, and while the early boat-tail Spider is gorgeous, yours is very attractive as well.

 

[supercity]

Keep in mind this was already a very old engine in 1987. During that era 20w50s ruled Europe. High mileage 15w50s and 20w50s (and even 20w60) are popular in the Alfa scene as they will reduce the tendency of these engines to consume oil. Eventually the recommendation did switch to 10w40 semi synthetic before the end of the production in the mid 1990s. I would choose something based on a cost/consumption basis. Any ACEA A3 lube will have sufficient HTHS for the job.

 

[marco246]

jayg,

I've owned six Alfas and a few other Italian autos, all models in the 1967 to 1988 years. I bought a new 74 spider and a new 88 Milano. Both specked 10W-50. The old four-bangers usually had two two-barreled Webers or Dellortos or Spica mechanical fuel injection. If out of adjustment, fuel got into the oil and thinned it, so Alfa specked heavier oils to make up for it. Plus one is expected to firewall the accelerator for hours on end in European driving, and Alfa never felt the need to cater to those plodding along at U.S. speed limits with a lesser recommendation. There is no reason a nice 40-weight oil shouldn't do the job barring a fuel dilution problem or if the engine is very worn. In the latter case, a 20W-50 makes sense.

I just last month sold a 71 Alfa 1750 GTV. I used Delo 15W-40 in it, and its oil pressure was perfect (55 psi at 3000 rpm with the oil warmed up properly). All these old Alfas "use" some oil as well as drop some more on the ground. No biggy, but that may inform your choice as to a more expensive synthetic 5W- or 10W-40 or a conventional 15W-40.

 

[jayg]

Hey thanks Marco, that all makes sense to me. I have a Bosch efi version in good shape with no smoking so ill stick with the 10w40 conventional or 15w40s. I always wondered if it was an issue with the bottom end they wanted protected or what. I shouldn't have any fuel dilution issues with this setup. Ill do a uoa on this car at the end of the run to see how it is doing.

 

[jayg]

So currently there is 5w30 Castrol GTX in it as of June. I picked the car up about a week ago so after checking it and it shows very clean with about 200 miles on it, I think ill run it and keep an eye on it. When it needs a top off ill add some thicker stuff then to mix it.

 

[CATERHAM]

Originally Posted By: jayg
So currently there is 5w30 Castrol GTX in it as of June. I picked the car up about a week ago so after checking it and it shows very clean with about 200 miles on it, I think ill run it and keep an eye on it.

What I'd suggest is that you take the time to become very familiar with the OP characteristics of your Alfa engine on the 5W-30 GTX you're currently running. Find out the factory OP test spec's; there should be a minimum OP spec' for idle and one at some elevated rpm.
You can also determine the OP by-pass point yourself (maximum OP reading with cold oil at elevated rev's).

With this familiarity you'll know decisively how much viscosity reserve running the GTX 5W-30 when the oil gets fully hot that you have. If you never test the minimum OP test spec's then you'll know there is nothing to be gained in running a heavier oil.