There is a riding academy associated with my son's school. The woman who runs it is looking at new 3/4 ton pickups, and has asked for my input. Now, I know 240/740/940 Volvos, and I do the maintenance on the school's '94 Ford Van, but I don't really know pickups. But some of you folks certainly DO know pickups - so - she needs a truck that will see regular (though not sustained - maybe 150 to 300 miles every other weekend) service pulling what I would estimate to be a 6,000 lb horse trailer. Ford, Chevy, Dodge? Diesel or gas? Auto or stick? (Actually, I think she'd prefer a manual gearbox.) Personally, I think a Dodge Ram 2500 with the Cummins turbo diesel would be just the ticket, but what do I know?
Advice/Opinions: 3/4 ton P/U purchase
- Thread starter Mike242GT
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Dodge Ram 2500 with the Cummins turbo diesel would be just the ticket, but what do I know?
Well I agree 100% so I think you know something.
This is the one domestic vehicle I'd feel pretty safe buying.
I have huge respect for the Cummins engine. In states with high altitude passes the turbodiesels sell really well as their towing capabilities hold up better when the air is thin. Plus you can get 20 mpg or better in a big powerful long lasting truck. It is the only way to go where I live if your going to buy a big pickup.
Well I agree 100% so I think you know something.
This is the one domestic vehicle I'd feel pretty safe buying.
I have huge respect for the Cummins engine. In states with high altitude passes the turbodiesels sell really well as their towing capabilities hold up better when the air is thin. Plus you can get 20 mpg or better in a big powerful long lasting truck. It is the only way to go where I live if your going to buy a big pickup.
I don't like the Chevy.
I love Fords so of course I'm going to vote for that.
Go with either Dodge/Ford 3/4 ton with a diesel and whichever transmission you want.
The diesel will pay for itself in lower maintaince costs and fuel savings.
I love Fords so of course I'm going to vote for that.
Go with either Dodge/Ford 3/4 ton with a diesel and whichever transmission you want.
The diesel will pay for itself in lower maintaince costs and fuel savings.
with only 6,000 lbs any would pull this just fine and a diesel would be over kill. Heak a Chevy 4.3 v6 can pull almost 6,000 lbs! I'd go with a SBC like the 4.8 or 5.3 or a Ford 4.6 or 5.4. More truck then you will need!
My 1500 Chevy 5.3 will pull up to 9,000 lbs just fine.
My 1500 Chevy 5.3 will pull up to 9,000 lbs just fine.
A gasoline powered truck will probably get 10 mpg or less pulling a load like that. A diesel maybe 14-16 mpg. Diesel is running about 10 cents a gallon cheaper in N. Central Florida at this time. She should get what she feels comfortable with price wise.
Go with the Ford Superduty. A diesel would be the one.
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Daily Drives:
-2003 Toyota Tacoma PreRunner XtraCab, 2.7 Liter , Mobil1 Synthetic SS 5W-30.
ODO 7950 Miles.
-1995 Toyota 4-Runner 3.0 V6, Mobil1 Synthetic SS 10W-30.
ODO 83900 Miles.
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ram 2500 with cummins gets my vote. .
With today's diesels there is no reason to own a gas engine in a pickup.
All 3 have decient diesel engines.
Dodge uses Cummins who has been making diesels forever.I believe this engine will get better mpg than the other 2.
Ford uses I.H. diesels. I.H. has been building farm equipment for like 100 years. Good engine but they do seem to have more problems with them than the Cummins engines.
GM uses an engine made by Isuzu. It's a relativly new engine but seems to be holding up well.
Thats the order I would choose them in.
All 3 have decient diesel engines.
Dodge uses Cummins who has been making diesels forever.I believe this engine will get better mpg than the other 2.
Ford uses I.H. diesels. I.H. has been building farm equipment for like 100 years. Good engine but they do seem to have more problems with them than the Cummins engines.
GM uses an engine made by Isuzu. It's a relativly new engine but seems to be holding up well.
Thats the order I would choose them in.
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Well, I havne't towed a horse trailer in 25 years ..but for the limited use you're talking about a diesel would be overkill as someone else mentioned. My C20 with a SBC (75) walked up fairly decent grades and had more than enough power to pull a two horse trailer. Gas mileage would drop no lower than 11 on the longer runs. I had a 78 C20, that time with a 454 and auto (the 75 was the heavy 4) and it did the same job for a max of 8 mpg.
You don't need a 3/4 ton to do this job. Unless this is a prerequisite, much money could be saved over a diesel.
My two female horsemen (horsewomen is allegedly a non-word), sisters (dated both at seperate times) own one of each. The one tows a 4 horse trailer ..she's naturally got the Cummins..the other uses a two horse and has a 1/2 ton SBC. Both are happy with their transportation capabilities.
I owned a Peugeot and a VW diesel. Both performed flawlessly (the engines anyway). I got great fuel economy but I was in the shop every other week for an oil change (I drove 300+ miles a day as a courier).
If I bought a Cummins it would ONLY be for the sake of NOT having to put an extra $30 a week in the tank over a gas V8.
You don't need a 3/4 ton to do this job. Unless this is a prerequisite, much money could be saved over a diesel.
My two female horsemen (horsewomen is allegedly a non-word), sisters (dated both at seperate times) own one of each. The one tows a 4 horse trailer ..she's naturally got the Cummins..the other uses a two horse and has a 1/2 ton SBC. Both are happy with their transportation capabilities.
Someone has really got to tune me up here. Aside from fuel economy and gross power ..just how does a diesel in any way shape or form have lower maintenance cost? The average gasoline engine requires only oil and filters and can go much further without required maintenance ..and unless you keep it in excess of so many miles to offset the extra cash outlay ?????. The gasoline engine, in its typical non-commercial use, will easily go 250,000 miles without an overhaul and do it on the exact same chassis (that is, beyond these miles the vehicle will probably not hold up even if you have a purring diesel ready to give you 10 more years of service).
I owned a Peugeot and a VW diesel. Both performed flawlessly (the engines anyway). I got great fuel economy but I was in the shop every other week for an oil change (I drove 300+ miles a day as a courier).
If I bought a Cummins it would ONLY be for the sake of NOT having to put an extra $30 a week in the tank over a gas V8.
Kind of answered your own question there. =)
If you can get a used (but well maintained) diesel for a good price, sounds like that may be the way to go. But new diesels have a $5-6K premium over gas engines. You have to drive an awful LOT to make that up in fuel savings.
With 6,000 lbs to tow, a gas rig will be fine and lots cheaper to purchase.
DEWFPO
With 6,000 lbs to tow, a gas rig will be fine and lots cheaper to purchase.
DEWFPO
I would agree that the diesel is big time over-kill for this application. If all she wants is a truck, then shop around for a basic V8 powered 3/4 ton 2x4 and buy on price alone.
To make a diesel pay off, you have to keep it almost 3x that of a gas engine. Not many people will want to keep a vehicle that long. If you are pulling heavy loads, 15,000 lbs, then it may be the right choice but for a 6000 lb horse trailer, waste of money.
A friend owned a welding supply business with his brother for 40 yrs. I once asked him why he did not drive a diesel in their pickups, they had them in the big delivery trucks? Cost was the big issue, to break even with the gas he would have to drive it 300,000 miles and then it was worthless to them as a trade in. Better to buy gas, spend the extra $ on creature comforts and trade them every 3 yrs. So instead of bare bone diesel, they equipped their salesman (who also delivered small parts) with Silverado's. He claimed over the years the had every make but prefered the Chevy's because the always had better comfort features, brought higer trade-in amd broke down less often.
Diesel onwers always think they (diesel powered vehciles) are the answer to everything.
[ April 03, 2004, 07:16 PM: Message edited by: Mike ]
To make a diesel pay off, you have to keep it almost 3x that of a gas engine. Not many people will want to keep a vehicle that long. If you are pulling heavy loads, 15,000 lbs, then it may be the right choice but for a 6000 lb horse trailer, waste of money.
A friend owned a welding supply business with his brother for 40 yrs. I once asked him why he did not drive a diesel in their pickups, they had them in the big delivery trucks? Cost was the big issue, to break even with the gas he would have to drive it 300,000 miles and then it was worthless to them as a trade in. Better to buy gas, spend the extra $ on creature comforts and trade them every 3 yrs. So instead of bare bone diesel, they equipped their salesman (who also delivered small parts) with Silverado's. He claimed over the years the had every make but prefered the Chevy's because the always had better comfort features, brought higer trade-in amd broke down less often.
Diesel onwers always think they (diesel powered vehciles) are the answer to everything.
[ April 03, 2004, 07:16 PM: Message edited by: Mike ]
Looking at what we are calling for here my recommenation would be:
Stick with the 3/4 ton truck. If the truck is being bought for the sole purpose to haul a horse trailer, the 3/4 ton is the way to go.
While most (and believe me, it isn't all) 1/2 ton trucks are capable enough to haul a 6000 lb trailer, they will be pushed out closer to their maximums than a 3/4 ton will. The 3/4 ton gets you heavier duty brakes, suspension pieces, and LT tires rated for decent loads. In general, all around more capable and competent package for trailer towing that brings an extra margin of safety. Also don't forget how many people may go into the truck. The 3/4 ton comes with crew cab tyoe options if need be, without reductions in cargo carrying ability or towing (at least less than a 1/2 ton).
With that said, gas or diesel? The usual tradeoff here is higher intital costs (generally 4-5k more at purchase) for diesels versus gasoline. The diesel will get you much better fuel mileage, especially while towing. Unfortunately, even this advantage generally requires 120-150,000 miles before break even is achieved against the initial cost. The counter to that is diesels hold their value better than gasoline engines, and generally will allow a 2-3k higher resale price. If you are going to buy it and drive it into the ground, then this means nothing. Also keep in mind what the operator and maintenance people are comfortable with. If the remiander of a fleet is gas, then perhaps moving to diesel isn't the right call. Some people just don't like the sound and smell of a diesel either, though this is less of a concern with modern diesels.
What I see here is a load that doesn't tip the scale all the way to a diesel, but makes it an either or choice. Especially with a manual box, the gas engines will be plenty capable to move this load. The diesels will very easily move the load too. I also notice we're talking Florida here, so the extra oopmh of a diesel to conquer long grades doesn't appear to be an issue.
As far as brands, in 3/4 ton trim, all three will do well. My personal preference here would be the Ford Superduty 3/4 ton equipped with a 6.8l V10. The 5.4 is a bit underpowered for this size truck, and the 6.8 V10 is a nice motor. It surprises a lot of people in its peformance. Fuel mileage unloaded would run around 14mpg, loaded closer to 11 mpg.
Dodge and Chevy also make capable rigs. I think engine choice in the Dodge would be the Hemi, but it doesn't have a long term track record yet. Chevy/GMC are also capable, but I am not a fan of the 6.0 V8 (feels a bit gutless and revs like a motor more suited for an automotive application). That being said, plenty of folks love theirs. The 8.1 V8 in the GM lineup is also a bit of a gas pig.
In short, all three choices have things going for them. My pick would be a Ford Superduty F250 with the 6.8l V10.
Stick with the 3/4 ton truck. If the truck is being bought for the sole purpose to haul a horse trailer, the 3/4 ton is the way to go.
While most (and believe me, it isn't all) 1/2 ton trucks are capable enough to haul a 6000 lb trailer, they will be pushed out closer to their maximums than a 3/4 ton will. The 3/4 ton gets you heavier duty brakes, suspension pieces, and LT tires rated for decent loads. In general, all around more capable and competent package for trailer towing that brings an extra margin of safety. Also don't forget how many people may go into the truck. The 3/4 ton comes with crew cab tyoe options if need be, without reductions in cargo carrying ability or towing (at least less than a 1/2 ton).
With that said, gas or diesel? The usual tradeoff here is higher intital costs (generally 4-5k more at purchase) for diesels versus gasoline. The diesel will get you much better fuel mileage, especially while towing. Unfortunately, even this advantage generally requires 120-150,000 miles before break even is achieved against the initial cost. The counter to that is diesels hold their value better than gasoline engines, and generally will allow a 2-3k higher resale price. If you are going to buy it and drive it into the ground, then this means nothing. Also keep in mind what the operator and maintenance people are comfortable with. If the remiander of a fleet is gas, then perhaps moving to diesel isn't the right call. Some people just don't like the sound and smell of a diesel either, though this is less of a concern with modern diesels.
What I see here is a load that doesn't tip the scale all the way to a diesel, but makes it an either or choice. Especially with a manual box, the gas engines will be plenty capable to move this load. The diesels will very easily move the load too. I also notice we're talking Florida here, so the extra oopmh of a diesel to conquer long grades doesn't appear to be an issue.
As far as brands, in 3/4 ton trim, all three will do well. My personal preference here would be the Ford Superduty 3/4 ton equipped with a 6.8l V10. The 5.4 is a bit underpowered for this size truck, and the 6.8 V10 is a nice motor. It surprises a lot of people in its peformance. Fuel mileage unloaded would run around 14mpg, loaded closer to 11 mpg.
Dodge and Chevy also make capable rigs. I think engine choice in the Dodge would be the Hemi, but it doesn't have a long term track record yet. Chevy/GMC are also capable, but I am not a fan of the 6.0 V8 (feels a bit gutless and revs like a motor more suited for an automotive application). That being said, plenty of folks love theirs. The 8.1 V8 in the GM lineup is also a bit of a gas pig.
In short, all three choices have things going for them. My pick would be a Ford Superduty F250 with the 6.8l V10.
My personal preferance would definitely be for a diesel 3/4 ton truck; there absolutely no question in my mind. It's not just about the "tow ratings", fuel economy, and initial cost, it's also about how well the truck engine/drivetrain pulls the load. In my experience, high powered gas engines can pull heavy loads, but they do a poor job at it. I personally don't enjoy pulling a heavy load with a gas motor that has to "rev up" to get into it's power band. I find it quite fatiguing to drive where you are always reving the **** out of engine just to make it up a long grade. Diesels are so much more enjoyable to pull with, since they have far superior low end power. Torque is key to a good towing vehicle not horsepower.
Additionally, I don't know why people are quoting 0-60 times with trailers. Who the **** cares? If you towing a heavy trailer foot to the floor boards off the lights with a high powered half ton, you're just asking to break parts. I find these magazines that rate trucks generally have very poor assessments of rating trucks as trucks. They tend to rate a pick-up the same way they do cars.
Plus, towing is not all just about power, it's about the entire truck as a package. These new half-tons have lots of power which makes them very fast, but I don't think they are well suited for towing heavy loads. Half-ton's still have light duty brakes, light duty tanny's, light duty rear ends, light duty suspension and light duty chassis. 3/4 ton heavy duty trucks and 1 tons have much stronger frames, rear ends, bigger brakes, and HD suspensions which makes them far better and much more durable towing machines.
Keeping all this in mind, my suggestion for the original poster's question would be a late model 3/4 Super Duty Ford with a 7.3 Powerstroke. The 6.0L Powerstroke seems to be a good engine thus far, but I don't trust it enough yet. I have put many miles on Navistar 7.3 Diesels, and I can honestly say that it is one of the my all time favorite engines gas or diesel. The Cummins ISB is probably my favorite engine of the diesels in the pickups, but I still don't like Dodge trucks, nor do I trust the long term quality. The new GM's HD trucks are okay, but I don't trust the Duramax with its Aluminium heads.
Additionally, I don't know why people are quoting 0-60 times with trailers. Who the **** cares? If you towing a heavy trailer foot to the floor boards off the lights with a high powered half ton, you're just asking to break parts. I find these magazines that rate trucks generally have very poor assessments of rating trucks as trucks. They tend to rate a pick-up the same way they do cars.
Plus, towing is not all just about power, it's about the entire truck as a package. These new half-tons have lots of power which makes them very fast, but I don't think they are well suited for towing heavy loads. Half-ton's still have light duty brakes, light duty tanny's, light duty rear ends, light duty suspension and light duty chassis. 3/4 ton heavy duty trucks and 1 tons have much stronger frames, rear ends, bigger brakes, and HD suspensions which makes them far better and much more durable towing machines.
Keeping all this in mind, my suggestion for the original poster's question would be a late model 3/4 Super Duty Ford with a 7.3 Powerstroke. The 6.0L Powerstroke seems to be a good engine thus far, but I don't trust it enough yet. I have put many miles on Navistar 7.3 Diesels, and I can honestly say that it is one of the my all time favorite engines gas or diesel. The Cummins ISB is probably my favorite engine of the diesels in the pickups, but I still don't like Dodge trucks, nor do I trust the long term quality. The new GM's HD trucks are okay, but I don't trust the Duramax with its Aluminium heads.
Lets not forget you are towing a trailer and have cargo too. You could easily add another 1000 pounds for that.
There is some pretty decent grade in Florida. The majority of the speed is 70 MPH and up.
Looking back I would still go the Superduty Ford. That is the preference here in Florida.
There is some pretty decent grade in Florida. The majority of the speed is 70 MPH and up.
Looking back I would still go the Superduty Ford. That is the preference here in Florida.
Lets not forget you are towing a trailer and have cargo too. You could easily add another 1000 pounds for that.
There is some pretty decent grade in Florida. The majority of the speed is 70 MPH and up.
Looking back I would still go the Superduty Ford. That is the preference here in Florida.
There is some pretty decent grade in Florida. The majority of the speed is 70 MPH and up.
Looking back I would still go the Superduty Ford. That is the preference here in Florida.
Lets not forget you are towing a trailer and have cargo too. You could easily add another 1000 pounds for that.
There is some pretty decent grade in Florida. The majority of the speed is 70 MPH and up.
Looking back I would still go the Superduty Ford. That is the preference here in Florida.
There is some pretty decent grade in Florida. The majority of the speed is 70 MPH and up.
Looking back I would still go the Superduty Ford. That is the preference here in Florida.
Lets not forget you are towing a trailer and have cargo too. You could easily add another 1000 pounds for that.
There is some pretty decent grade in Florida. The majority of the speed is 70 MPH and up.
Looking back I would still go the Superduty Ford. That is the preference here in Florida.
There is some pretty decent grade in Florida. The majority of the speed is 70 MPH and up.
Looking back I would still go the Superduty Ford. That is the preference here in Florida.
Lets not forget you are towing a trailer and have cargo too. You could easily add another 1000 pounds for that.
There is some pretty decent grade in Florida. The majority of the speed is 70 MPH and up.
Looking back I would still go the Superduty Ford. That is the preference here in Florida.
There is some pretty decent grade in Florida. The majority of the speed is 70 MPH and up.
Looking back I would still go the Superduty Ford. That is the preference here in Florida.
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