Advice needed on BMW K1200GT

[crimedog]

I purchased a pristine 2004 BMW K1200GT with only 19k on the clock. It has barely been ridden in the last couple of years, hence the issue. Very regular oil changes, but the short rides and inactivity has caused an apparent problem with the starter sprag (sort of a bendix, but inside the engine and has some oil flow, but not a lot so this causes the sprag to get gunked up.

The starter spins but does not engage the flywheel. It is a pretty common problem and I have researched the heck out of it and there are differing opinions on getting it unstuck without tearing into the engine, which is a major issue.

My plan is to put a couple of ounces of seafoam in the crankcase and ride it for a hundred miles or so (that will happen today, the bike can be push started). If that doesn't unstick it, I am planning on changing oil and filter with Shell Rotella t4. Then riding it a bunch of miles in hopes that it unsticks. My question is, I have used HPL engine cleaner with great success on my Honda Accord. The engine is a dry clutch setup and gearbox is separate from the engine. It is the "brick" engine, which is basically like a car. So I am thinking of adding a half quart to the rotella and ride for a couple hundred miles and if that doesn't clean it out, it's time for a teardown.

Thoughts?

 

[paulo57509]

Since lack of use is causing the starter drive issue, I would just change the oil (frequently) and ride it without the additives - my thinking is get the oil hot (and circulating) and use the starter button (frequently).

 

[rmueller23]

Since the engine oil is isolated from the clutch your idea doesn't sound out of left field---though if the Seafoam doesn't do it I'd wonder if the HPL would have much effect. Not because of a failing of the product, but because the oil flow to that area is minimal. I would be inclined to do something like this gentleman outlines to introduce cleaning agent directly into the clutch mechanism to definitively resolve the issue, then operate/maintain to mitigate the issue going forward:

 

[crimedog]

Thanks rmueller23. I took it for about a 60 mile ride after the seafoam, parked it on a hill in the parking lot and went in for a cool drink. Came out about 45 minutes later and it started on about the 3rd try. So nothing is apparently broken, just having trouble engaging from the inertia, which leads me to believe it's still tight.

Rode it home, let it set for a bit and then tried three or four times. Nothing. Came back out about 10 minutes later and it started again, although not on first try.

Seems obvious to me that it's got some varnish, or something internally. I had seen the video you posted. I am a little reluctant to use carb cleaner but I have no idea what would be better. I do have seafoam that is in aerosol form that is to clean carbs and butterfly valves an stuff like that. Do you think this would work? I am just a little worried about the ramifications of carb cleaner possibly left in the crankase if for some reason it didn't all drain out.

Thanks for the help

 

[Oliveoil2]

Sounds like you’ve got some tight exhaust valves.

 

[CCI]

I purchased a pristine 2004 BMW K1200GT with only 19k on the clock. It has barely been ridden in the last couple of years, hence the issue. Very regular oil changes, but the short rides and inactivity has caused an apparent problem with the starter sprag (sort of a bendix, but inside the engine and has some oil flow, but not a lot so this causes the sprag to get gunked up.

The starter spins but does not engage the flywheel. It is a pretty common problem and I have researched the heck out of it and there are differing opinions on getting it unstuck without tearing into the engine, which is a major issue.

My plan is to put a couple of ounces of seafoam in the crankcase and ride it for a hundred miles or so (that will happen today, the bike can be push started). If that doesn't unstick it, I am planning on changing oil and filter with Shell Rotella t4. Then riding it a bunch of miles in hopes that it unsticks. My question is, I have used HPL engine cleaner with great success on my Honda Accord. The engine is a dry clutch setup and gearbox is separate from the engine. It is the "brick" engine, which is basically like a car. So I am thinking of adding a half quart to the rotella and ride for a couple hundred miles and if that doesn't clean it out, it's time for a teardown.

Thoughts?

Mobil 1 V-Twin formula will clean stuff out of motors that other motor oils won't even begin to dislodge.

Might be worth a try, certainly couldn't hurt anything.

 

[rmueller23]

Thanks rmueller23. I took it for about a 60 mile ride after the seafoam, parked it on a hill in the parking lot and went in for a cool drink. Came out about 45 minutes later and it started on about the 3rd try. So nothing is apparently broken, just having trouble engaging from the inertia, which leads me to believe it's still tight.

Rode it home, let it set for a bit and then tried three or four times. Nothing. Came back out about 10 minutes later and it started again, although not on first try.

Seems obvious to me that it's got some varnish, or something internally. I had seen the video you posted. I am a little reluctant to use carb cleaner but I have no idea what would be better. I do have seafoam that is in aerosol form that is to clean carbs and butterfly valves an stuff like that. Do you think this would work? I am just a little worried about the ramifications of carb cleaner possibly left in the crankase if for some reason it didn't all drain out.

Thanks for the help

Sorry to hear that didn't do the trick fully. I've not dealt with this K1200 issue personally, but here are my takeaways from my understanding of it and his videos--he also has a K1200 teardown video that gives an idea of the internals of the engine, exactly how the sprag clutch is situated, etc:



I don't believe the intent of the exercise is to run a significant amount of carb cleaner through the sprag clutch to clean it and therefore end up with a significant amount pooled in the crankcase. Instead, hit it with a few shots in each of the the three holes to help break up the varnish and carbon that is preventing the individual sprags from moving inside as they should. Carb cleaner leaves a thin film behind, so it's better than brake cleaner let's say, but it wouldn't hurt to introduce lubrication as well. You could hit it with carb cleaner first, then go back with an oil can and pump some oil into the assembly through each hole. The Seafoam Deep Creep he suggests is formulated as penetrating oil with some lubricating and cleaning properties, bringing some of each of the needed functions to the table.

If I was going to do this, I would do it right before an oil change. I would drain the engine oil into a clean container, dropping the plug and filter cover to allow anything that makes it down to the pan to drip out. After cleaning/lubing the sprag I would use lint-free rags to wipe up/soak up as much residual fluid that I introduced as could be reached. Reassemble the parts I've removed, pour the used oil back in, and take it for a short ride to get it up to operating temperature then come home and change the oil and filter. With a little over 3.5 quarts of oil in the system, I wouldn't be worried about the residual spray cleaner/lubricant that mixes in causing any issues.

I like the idea of Rotella T4, I see T4/T6 mentioned often on BMW forums. Others mention about using a flush additive every few OCIs as a preventative. It may be worth a call to HPL to discuss and see if they think an appropriate amount of Engine Cleaner every so often might be a worthwhile preventative--once you have it freed up. Let us know how it goes, best of luck

 

[Cujet]

Maybe I'm missing something, but why would T4 be a fix?

I would be much more likely to pull the pan and try a spray to dissolve rust/varnish, than to expect a generally conventional oil like T4 to give results.

 

[rmueller23]

Maybe I'm missing something, but why would T4 be a fix?

I would be much more likely to pull the pan and try a spray to dissolve rust/varnish, than to expect a generally conventional oil like T4 to give results.

It's not a fix for the presently stuck clutch. The proposed resolution for the immediate issue of the stuck sprag clutch is to pull the side cover and spray cleaner and lubricant into the assembly in an attempt to free it up. Anecdotal comments from BMW forums indicate some are running Rotella without issues overall, with the hope that the higher detergent levels help decrease the odds of recurrence--once it's working as it should.

 

[crimedog]

Sorry to hear that didn't do the trick fully. I've not dealt with this K1200 issue personally, but here are my takeaways from my understanding of it and his videos--he also has a K1200 teardown video that gives an idea of the internals of the engine, exactly how the sprag clutch is situated, etc:



I don't believe the intent of the exercise is to run a significant amount of carb cleaner through the sprag clutch to clean it and therefore end up with a significant amount pooled in the crankcase. Instead, hit it with a few shots in each of the the three holes to help break up the varnish and carbon that is preventing the individual sprags from moving inside as they should. Carb cleaner leaves a thin film behind, so it's better than brake cleaner let's say, but it wouldn't hurt to introduce lubrication as well. You could hit it with carb cleaner first, then go back with an oil can and pump some oil into the assembly through each hole. The Seafoam Deep Creep he suggests is formulated as penetrating oil with some lubricating and cleaning properties, bringing some of each of the needed functions to the table.

If I was going to do this, I would do it right before an oil change. I would drain the engine oil into a clean container, dropping the plug and filter cover to allow anything that makes it down to the pan to drip out. After cleaning/lubing the sprag I would use lint-free rags to wipe up/soak up as much residual fluid that I introduced as could be reached. Reassemble the parts I've removed, pour the used oil back in, and take it for a short ride to get it up to operating temperature then come home and change the oil and filter. With a little over 3.5 quarts of oil in the system, I wouldn't be worried about the residual spray cleaner/lubricant that mixes in causing any issues.

I like the idea of Rotella T4, I see T4/T6 mentioned often on BMW forums. Others mention about using a flush additive every few OCIs as a preventative. It may be worth a call to HPL to discuss and see if they think an appropriate amount of Engine Cleaner every so often might be a worthwhile preventative--once you have it freed up. Let us know how it goes, best of luck

I think that is a good plan of attack. Exactly what I will do. Thank you.

 

[EMOTO]

Maybe I am mistaken, but isn't the starter motor mounted to the top of the motor, under the fuel tank? Pull the fuel tank and you can access the starter directly, no?
(I think I was wrong)

Having now watched the video, it looks like you just pull off a frame brace and the engine cover, then spray penetrant into 3 holes and let it sit. Not so difficult. I would do exactly that instead of pouring a bunch of stuff into my oil.

 

[KrisZ]

I would spray carburetor cleaner in there. It has the best chance of dissolving the gunk. then spray some lubricant in there before starting the engine.