I've read this a few times on this forum, what potential addives could be in an oil, say valvoline, that would be invisible to a UOA?
Additives invisible to a UOA?
- Thread starter Jake54
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Polymer Esters for one.
You can search the web for patent applications for non (earth) metal compound additives for motor oil. Also the additive formulator sites have some information (=Lubrizol, Infinium, etc) One of the finest performing motor oils has no "detectable" compounds (FUCHS).
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MolaKule
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Originally Posted By: Jake54
I've read this a few times on this forum, what potential addives could be in an oil, say valvoline, that would be invisible to a UOA?
Ashless dispoersants, base oils, AW polymers, and friction modifiers are just some of the "invisible" chemistry in lubricants.
I've read this a few times on this forum, what potential addives could be in an oil, say valvoline, that would be invisible to a UOA?
Ashless dispoersants, base oils, AW polymers, and friction modifiers are just some of the "invisible" chemistry in lubricants.
It was simplified to me as anything organic.
How accurate that is I cannot say. Molekule has this one bagged and tagged.
How accurate that is I cannot say. Molekule has this one bagged and tagged.
MMO as ditto here is a red dyed Fuel (kerosene), don't raise the Fuel % in some analises...
Look!
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/3872637/1
Look!
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/3872637/1
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Originally Posted By: MolaKule
...AW polymers, and friction modifiers are just some of the "invisible" chemistry in lubricants.
Really?
...AW polymers, and friction modifiers are just some of the "invisible" chemistry in lubricants.
Really?
For VR-1 racing oil, Valvoline says it contains both zinc and "ashless anti-wear additives".
Probably why a Valvoline VOA always looks light, but they always seem to perform well.
The simple oil analysis that most people get won't show up complex organic chemistry, just simple elemental analysis. Maybe something like FTIR or Raman analysis would work, but you would need an expert on vibrational spectroscopy to interpret the results. It would take time and cost a lot.
Probably why a Valvoline VOA always looks light, but they always seem to perform well.
The simple oil analysis that most people get won't show up complex organic chemistry, just simple elemental analysis. Maybe something like FTIR or Raman analysis would work, but you would need an expert on vibrational spectroscopy to interpret the results. It would take time and cost a lot.
Originally Posted By: SR5
For VR-1 racing oil, Valvoline says it contains both zinc and "ashless anti-wear additives".
Probably why a Valvoline VOA always looks light, but they always seem to perform well.
The simple oil analysis that most people get won't show up complex organic chemistry, just simple elemental analysis. Maybe something like FTIR or Raman analysis would work, but you would need an expert on vibrational spectroscopy to interpret the results. It would take time and cost a lot.
TPP shows up, as P.
For VR-1 racing oil, Valvoline says it contains both zinc and "ashless anti-wear additives".
Probably why a Valvoline VOA always looks light, but they always seem to perform well.
The simple oil analysis that most people get won't show up complex organic chemistry, just simple elemental analysis. Maybe something like FTIR or Raman analysis would work, but you would need an expert on vibrational spectroscopy to interpret the results. It would take time and cost a lot.
TPP shows up, as P.
Anything hydrocarbon does not show up on a UOA elemental analysis.
I'm not even sure if Raman or IR would work well. Raman or IR work well for pure compounds, but for complex mixtures the spectrum would probably be a mess since you would get an average spectrum of all the different molecules in the oil.
I'm not even sure if Raman or IR would work well. Raman or IR work well for pure compounds, but for complex mixtures the spectrum would probably be a mess since you would get an average spectrum of all the different molecules in the oil.
Originally Posted By: camrydriver111
Anything hydrocarbon does not show up on a UOA elemental analysis.
I'm not even sure if Raman or IR would work well. Raman or IR work well for pure compounds, but for complex mixtures the spectrum would probably be a mess since you would get an average spectrum of all the different molecules in the oil.
Yeah, that is sort of how you do it. You run pure compounds, build up a library, then use peak matching software to deconvolute your complex mixture into base components. Making a few subjective calls over common bonds which could belong to multiple compounds. It can take days, if not weeks.
Liquids are "easy" because they rarely have orientation / polarization effects like crystalline solids do.
Not saying it's practical, just saying the simple oil analysis that most people get can miss a lot.
Anything hydrocarbon does not show up on a UOA elemental analysis.
I'm not even sure if Raman or IR would work well. Raman or IR work well for pure compounds, but for complex mixtures the spectrum would probably be a mess since you would get an average spectrum of all the different molecules in the oil.
Yeah, that is sort of how you do it. You run pure compounds, build up a library, then use peak matching software to deconvolute your complex mixture into base components. Making a few subjective calls over common bonds which could belong to multiple compounds. It can take days, if not weeks.
Liquids are "easy" because they rarely have orientation / polarization effects like crystalline solids do.
Not saying it's practical, just saying the simple oil analysis that most people get can miss a lot.
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