Acura TLX discontinued

[KrisZ]

Well, looks like AI has the "Focus" bullet points about right. "Reliability" is only mentioned for ... guess who ... Lexus

Was I replying to any reliability claims?

 

[RBT]

I'm not sure Lexus made the Germans better. At least not right away. Again, Mercedes responded to the LS400 by investing massively to build the W220 - which was the worst S class, ever.

But yeah, the launch and immediate success of Lexus is history. There is a book written about this. Lexus: The Relentless Pursuit

Respectfully this is not accurate - Mercedes and other industry participants knew about the LS400 - amazing car, they know it from corporate espionage, they all do it - and it was the reason the W140 was extremely over engineered and overly complex. The w220 was an attempt to get back market share based on price and as you noted it was probably the least distinguished S class ever made. Problematics cars to put it mildly. Not just those but the C and E of that time were also not that good.

Lexus makes very good cars and they have changed the industry, as the gentleman above noted. Any Toyota fan should visit the Tahara plant - amazing place.

 

[trd1zz]

Respectfully this is not accurate - Mercedes and other industry participants knew about the LS400 - amazing car, they know it from corporate espionage, they all do it - and it was the reason the W140 was extremely over engineered and overly complex. The w220 was an attempt to get back market share based on price and as you noted it was probably the least distinguished S class ever made. Problematics cars to put it mildly. Not just those but the C and E of that time were also not that good.

Lexus makes very good cars and they have changed the industry, as the gentleman above noted. Any Toyota fan should visit the Tahara plant - amazing place.

Toyota launched Lexus with LS (Project F1) as a secret project. Maybe Mercedes knew something was going on but I sincerely doubt they had knowledge of any substantial details. Claiming otherwise due to corporate espionage is a wild claim. I haven't seen that, anywhere. W140 initial design began and finished well before LS launched. Some things can be tweaked at the end of the run, but the timing simply doesn't line up for W140 to be built the way it was from the ground up because it was their response to LS400.

W220 is Mercedes from the ground up response to LS400 where all the details and sales success of LS400 were known and out in the open. Easy to see when W220 got smaller. And as we both agree, W220 was a horrible car. Almost all E's as well (I owned one).

 

[NormanBuntz]

OK. Take into consideration that current seats Toyota uses in Camry/Sienna/HL/GHL are almost 2" shorter than my Tiguan, and 4" shorter than in my BMW with extension out.
I have Sequoia with those padded seats etc. I will take my 3 series any time on a road trip over that car, bcs. comfort. The only reason I have such a car as a Sequoia is size, and off roading. And that does well. Comfort? Not even close. And we are talking Sequoia, not Camry.

If you or your partner, spouse etc. have long legs, those Toyota seats don't cut it.

 

[Mainia]

Problem is that nobody makes a non-sedan type vehicle that isn’t a pig. This was orchestrated to force (typically sedan) EVs to fill the gaps not closed by CAFE payouts associated with unacheivable mpg values.

I find most suvs low on utility, poor on fuel, and it just sucks.

Yeah, this car would make a nice tuner car, but then again ...is it a turbo V6? A good start for some suspension work. You could easily get it up to snuff with lowering springs and some spring rubbers to increase those lowering springs, spring rate and tune front to rear bias.

 

[RBT]

Toyota launched Lexus with LS (Project F1) as a secret project. Maybe Mercedes knew something was going on but I sincerely doubt they had knowledge of any substantial details. Claiming otherwise due to corporate espionage is a wild claim. I haven't seen that, anywhere. W140 initial design began and finished well before LS launched. Some things can be tweaked at the end of the run, but the timing simply doesn't line up for W140 to be built the way it was from the ground up because it was their response to LS400.

W220 is Mercedes from the ground up response to LS400 where all the details and sales success of LS400 were known and out in the open. Easy to see when W220 got smaller. And as we both agree, W220 was a horrible car. Almost all E's as well (I owned one).

I am not going to argue/. One of the reasons Mercedes put the M103 in the W126 in 1988 or so is because they knew Lexu was coming with an LS that would greatly undercut them on price. W220 cost cutting was in response was in reasonse to the apparent need for the Germans luxury brands to get sales volume because that was the need from the business perspective - it’s why BMW experimented buying a rover etc. 220 was messed up because they messed up not because of Lexus.

 

[edyvw]

If you or your partner, spouse etc. have long legs, those Toyota seats don't cut it.

My wife is fine, but she and driving don’t go into same sentence. So I always drive when road trips.
6.2, you are always having feeling you are hanging from the seat.
Sequoia we have is better, not as good as my 3 series. Far from it.

 

[edyvw]

I am not going to argue/. One of the reasons Mercedes put the M103 in the W126 in 1988 or so is because they knew Lexu was coming with an LS that would greatly undercut them on price. W220 cost cutting was in response was in reasonse to the apparent need for the Germans luxury brands to get sales volume because that was the need from the business perspective - it’s why BMW experimented buying a rover etc. 220 was messed up because they messed up not because of Lexus.

Lexus took part of the market that doesn’t car about brand, performance etc. People whose self-awareness is theoretical concept like dark matter. It was excellent business decision. That is why LS500 today is by far the worst luxury seller. Same people just moved onto something else.
They wanted barge, comfort and that is it. There was absolutely nothing that LS ever contributed to automotive industry. Otherwise, it would have issues, it wouldn’t appeal to that group.
It is luxury appliance. A high end refrigerator. That is why current one (besides junk engine) is selling so bad. LS was never name. People who buy in this category want something special not to drive LS 400 when they are 89 in some retirement community in Florida.

 

[OVERKILL]

Statistics. Have you ever taken such a class in high school or college? One will always find those few who swear by the reliability of their German car...but they are one, or few...statistics shows us that German vehicles are exceedingly less reliable than Japanese. You refuse to acknowledge this fact. Instead, you dump on Toyota and Honda owners. Go with data, not emotion, the kind of emotion you attach Japanese buyers as having.

Bro, we already established that Acura has lower reliability than the Germans in the other thread, maybe avoid lumping it into a conversation that is pretty much exclusively about Lexus vs?

If you are going to cite use of statistics, at least be consistent with the ones we've already discussed, or make an effort to address your opposition to those statistics with a lede.