Acura / Honda 3.5 v6 timing belt frustration!

[John105]

[QUOTE="I $1200 is about right for a dealer. Indy shops are around like $800-1200, dealers $1,200-2,000.
[/QUOTE]
jmoymmv, indie does a far better job. 1--they do more of them 2--they rely upon reputation

On my job, I was under the car with the tech who went over the job with me. Owner actually joked you better let him get to work or he won't finish today.

I got all the parts returned to me, not to mention a cool Aisin sticker on the engine cover. There was no evidence of the work being done except a tiny bit of pink coolant on the splash pan.

 

[The Critic]

Thanks. I'll be leaving the kit's w/p in place. Seems to be okay and temp is spot on. Same goes for the new roller pulleys I installed. Rather than seek out someone/someplace that will compress the tensioner for me (which some say you should do slowly), I'm tempted to throw money at it and just gets the one from the dealer.

Also re-trace your steps and make sure the sleeve on the tensioner pulley is properly installed.

And I hope you either replaced the idler pulley bolt or cleaned/reapplied loctite.

 

[jeepman3071]

jmoymmv, indie does a far better job. 1--they do more of them 2--they rely upon reputation

On my job, I was under the car with the tech who went over the job with me. Owner actually joked you better let him get to work or he won't finish today.

I got all the parts returned to me, not to mention a cool Aisin sticker on the engine cover. There was no evidence of the work being done except a tiny bit of pink coolant on the splash pan.

Depends on the indy, I would definitely find one with a good rep that has Honda experience. My family has owned quite a few Hondas, and I have serviced many others. Overall it has been a good experience, but I would never step foot in a Honda dealership outside of recalls or warranty work. Like many other dealerships (not all), the service departments tend to be run by dishonest scumbags with techs just out of school working on the vehicles.

 

[jimbanville]

Also re-trace your steps and make sure the sleeve on the tensioner pulley is properly installed.

And I hope you either replaced the idler pulley bolt or cleaned/reapplied loctite.

I was super careful about all the steps. Is there a wrong way to install the sleeve? The tensioner pulley is bolted down and moves freely when the tensioner isn't in place. I bought a tube of loctite just for the job.

 

[2010Civic]

I wouldn't buy any mission critical parts off amazon/ebay.

 

[jimbanville]

I wouldn't buy any mission critical parts off amazon/ebay.

I get it. I don't typically buy "house brand" parts from places like Autozone, etc. Turns out this kit is praised in many forums, is considered the "go to" kit for this job, and has 86% 5 stars reviews (4.8 stars) with over 1700 reviews on Amazon. I realize some people wouldn't buy parts on Amazon if it had 1 million 5 star reviews. I guess it's their principles. To each their own. Researching this job, I've read of people having failures of the OEM replacement parts bought from the dealer. Nothing is perfect. It's the original Honda part that is consistently failing at 100k miles in all these Honda's ... for years and years. Sad really.
Do you have any experience with Aisin kits?

 

[hrv]

Went off advice on the Honda forums while doing research on the job. Most of the folks there praise the Aisin kits. A handful have had issues.

A handfull is enough for me to go OEM...

 

[jimbanville]

A handfull is enough for me to go OEM...

There are a handful of complaints of the oem replacement part from the dealer failing prematurely. And it's the oem part from the factory consistently failing at 100k miles. Now what?

 

[hrv]

There are a handful of complaints of the oem replacement part from the dealer failing prematurely. And it's the oem part from the factory consistently failing at 100k miles. Now what?

Not from what I see....

 

[2010Civic]

I wouldn't buy off Amazon or ebay because they are full of counterfeit parts. I have the Aisin kit on my van and have installed it on two other odysseys. No issues. Bought all 3 kits from rockauto.

 

[jimbanville]

Not from what I see....

Which?
The factory part is consistently failing at 100k miles or premature failure of the oem part?

 

[jimbanville]

I wouldn't buy off Amazon or ebay because they are full of counterfeit parts. I have the Aisin kit on my van and have installed it on two other odysseys. No issues. Bought all 3 kits from rockauto.

I'm aware of fake products on Amazon. My gf recently got a pair of $30 "Apple AirPods" from Amazon. Lol. Has anyone ever seen a fake Aisin kit? What are the signs it is fake?

 

[jimbanville]

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2020/MC-10180017-0001.pdf

Very last item. If you review the factory service instructions for timing belt replacement, it always states to perform the CKP relearn. It is rarely needed and almost never gets done, but it is worth a shot. If all 3 marks truly line-up as you describe, it should not be giving you any faults. Were you able to retrieve the exact fault codes that are being generated?

I greatly appreciate your help, but reading up on this, am I missing something or where does it say it would give you an ECM/timing error code? Everything I see says it would be a crank position sensor fault code.

 

[The Critic]

I greatly appreciate your help, but reading up on this, am I missing something or where does it say it would give you an ECM/timing error code? Everything I see says it would be a crank position sensor fault code.

Without knowing the exact code that was retrieved, we're all guessing, right? Those descriptions can vary by scan tool, especially the cheaper ones.

 

[jimbanville]

Without knowing the exact code that was retrieved, we're all guessing, right? Those descriptions can vary by scan tool, especially the cheaper ones.

Ahhh. Ok. I can't remember what it said exactly. I just remembered the ECM fault and "timing error" parts.

 

[paulo57509]

$1200 is common from what I've read for this engine. The kit that I used and that gets a ton of praise was $200.

It's not running right now because I would likely still have the trouble code if it were, and I'm deciding what to do as far as compressing and reinstalling the tensioner.
That's why I posted my question. Looking for expert advice on how to proceed. If I compress and reuse tensioner and I get code again, then what? Replace tensioner with part from dealer and see what happens? Then replace belt with part from dealer? Replace both at same time? Other possibilities? Why was there slack in the middle section of belt between pulleys that went away after I pulled plugs and hand spun motor?

Did you route the belt similar to the following sequence?

I route the belt starting at the crankshaft, positioning the belt on the pulleys so that what ever slack in the belt (sometimes there is none with a new belt) ends up on run where the tensioner is.

- Toyota 1UZ V8

The slack in the belt run between the camshafts "disappears" after the engine is rotated (by hand or running the engine) because one of the camshafts becomes out-of-phase. IOW, there's excess belt teeth between the cam sprockets. The only way this slack is taken up is when one of the camshafts rotates out-of-phase to take up the slack - the slack moves to where the tensioner takes it up.

 

[Dave Hess]

you could have gotten the dealer to do that job for $1200? Seems low to me.

Anyways, let it ride for a while if everything is running ok.

Yep, I would take to shop and have it done.

Dealer will give you a loaner car for a few hours.

 

[jimbanville]

Did you route the belt similar to the following sequence?

I route the belt starting at the crankshaft, positioning the belt on the pulleys so that what ever slack in the belt (sometimes there is none with a new belt) ends up on run where the tensioner is.

View attachment 163457

The slack in the belt run between the camshafts "disappears" after the engine is rotated (by hand or running the engine) because one of the camshafts becomes out-of-phase. IOW, there's excess belt teeth between the cam sprockets. The only way this slack is taken up is when one of the camshafts rotates out-of-phase to take up the slack - the slack moves to where the tensioner takes it up.

I did start at the crank, go up to the front cam pulley, under the roller pulley, up to the rear cam pulley and down past the tensioner pulley.
All these belts are supposed to be identical, right? So going from the timing mark on the front pulley to the timing mark on the rear cam pulley, how many teeth should there be?
I apologize for not fully understanding you, but why would there be slack in the belt between cam pulleys when engine is stopped after normal operation?

 

[Hall]

And it's the oem part from the factory consistently failing at 100k miles

Never heard that before.... What I have heard is it's rarely the belt that goes, that it is the tensioner, but it's on vehicles where the owners simply never replace them (they don't know it's strongly advised to do so).

 

[jimbanville]

Yep, I would take to shop and have it done.

Lol. Taking it to a shop is my very last resort. I think I can figure it out for less than another $1200. I could even buy OEM parts and install them for way less than $1200, but I think I had it installed correctly. I think either the tensioner is faulty or the belt is out of spec.