Job is complete. She’s up and running. Now clean up and late night sauna. I think I’ll be in pain tomorrow. Will provide a more detailed update on how the job went. Many thanks to everyone who made suggestions and shared wisdom, everyone is greatly appreciated. Cheers
'16 Pilot - Timing belt replacement questions
- Thread starter parshisa
- Start date
Good thing is they don't (usually) pour oil and you can go a good long time with them seeping, just annoying more than anything.
Really sucks that most of the seals are molded o-ring type and not just a round o-ring where you might be able to source an upgrade.
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i didn't. got all the parts from RA
south texas climate definitely helps!
As expected, I'm very sore today. Huge respect to mechanics that do this on a daily basis. Anyhow, here are some notes from the yesterday's adventure.
1. As many suggested, I've started off by breaking the crank bolt loose. Very uneventful, two hits with the Milwaukee high torque impact paired with Leslie socket - and it was free.
2. Disassembly was pretty straightforward, up until I got to the last bolt holding the lower timing cover (the one that sits behind the drive belt tensioner). No matter what I tried, I couldn't get it off so ended up removing the tensioner. I didn't have the swiveling 10 mm socket, which would definitely help. Wasted an hour or so just on one bolt.
3. Setting the timing wasn't too hard, but I spent excessive amount of time verifying the marks. Marking the old belt, counting the teeth and transferring the marks on the new belt was super helpful. I've initially installed the belt (what I thought looked good), but then sure enough rear cam was one tooth off. Traced the belt back and sure enough it wasn't seated properly. Once re-seated, all marks on the belt lined up perfectly. For someone who's doing the timing job for the first time this method is a must.
4. As expected, timing belt tensioner was leaking. Timing belt itself looked perfect with no cracks or signs of major degradation (it could probably go another 100k).
5. Once all timing components were re-installed, pulled the pin and spun the crank twice with cam marks lining up.
6. Putting the rest back together wasn't too bad, up until I got to the drive belt tensioner and belt itself. Getting that belt on was a nightmare. Spent at least an hour trying to get it on. Anyhow, got it on, put the rest back on. Torqued the crank bolt to 46 ft-lb, and then added a couple of light hits with the impact and called it good.
7. Refilled the radiator with 1.6 gal of Zerex Blue, started up, heat to the max and let it idle and burp the air. Squeeze the hose, ran for 15-20 minutes till no more air was seeing in the coolant bowl I've used. Took the car for a spin, cleaned up the mess. Wanted to do the spark plugs as well, but was too tired...will change them later this week.
Total time was 12 hrs (8 am - 8 pm), with one hour for a work related call and 30 min lunch. My buddy's ridgline is next (he stopped by to help but ended up changing the spark plugs in his truck and leaving) and I hope it will take less time now that I have some experience (or idea I should say) doing it.
The lowlight, looks my front driver shock is done and leaking, so that will need to be addressed sooner rather than later. If anyone has a suggestion on solid aftermarket option, please let me know.
Below are some pics of original timing components and water pump.
1. As many suggested, I've started off by breaking the crank bolt loose. Very uneventful, two hits with the Milwaukee high torque impact paired with Leslie socket - and it was free.
2. Disassembly was pretty straightforward, up until I got to the last bolt holding the lower timing cover (the one that sits behind the drive belt tensioner). No matter what I tried, I couldn't get it off so ended up removing the tensioner. I didn't have the swiveling 10 mm socket, which would definitely help. Wasted an hour or so just on one bolt.
3. Setting the timing wasn't too hard, but I spent excessive amount of time verifying the marks. Marking the old belt, counting the teeth and transferring the marks on the new belt was super helpful. I've initially installed the belt (what I thought looked good), but then sure enough rear cam was one tooth off. Traced the belt back and sure enough it wasn't seated properly. Once re-seated, all marks on the belt lined up perfectly. For someone who's doing the timing job for the first time this method is a must.
4. As expected, timing belt tensioner was leaking. Timing belt itself looked perfect with no cracks or signs of major degradation (it could probably go another 100k).
5. Once all timing components were re-installed, pulled the pin and spun the crank twice with cam marks lining up.
6. Putting the rest back together wasn't too bad, up until I got to the drive belt tensioner and belt itself. Getting that belt on was a nightmare. Spent at least an hour trying to get it on. Anyhow, got it on, put the rest back on. Torqued the crank bolt to 46 ft-lb, and then added a couple of light hits with the impact and called it good.
7. Refilled the radiator with 1.6 gal of Zerex Blue, started up, heat to the max and let it idle and burp the air. Squeeze the hose, ran for 15-20 minutes till no more air was seeing in the coolant bowl I've used. Took the car for a spin, cleaned up the mess. Wanted to do the spark plugs as well, but was too tired...will change them later this week.
Total time was 12 hrs (8 am - 8 pm), with one hour for a work related call and 30 min lunch. My buddy's ridgline is next (he stopped by to help but ended up changing the spark plugs in his truck and leaving) and I hope it will take less time now that I have some experience (or idea I should say) doing it.
The lowlight, looks my front driver shock is done and leaking, so that will need to be addressed sooner rather than later. If anyone has a suggestion on solid aftermarket option, please let me know.
Below are some pics of original timing components and water pump.
The J35 timing belt/water pump replacement is as straightforward as they come. You will feel like an expert after you do it again on your friend's Ridgeline.
The Lisle (not Leslie) weighted socket costs $20, but is worth its weight in gold. I love using physics to overcome a brute force problem!
If your buddy's Ridgeline happens to have the hydraulic tensioner for the serpentine belt, it will have to be removed to get the lower timing cover off anyway. Also, I bought an extended reach 1/4" cordless ratchet before doing the last two TB jobs and it paid for itself in removing/reinstalling the multiple timing cover bolts. Quite the time saver and it was a pleasure to use.
That is exactly why I suggested this best practice. Your experience echoes my first attempt on the J35 timing belt replacement.
The Honda OEM TB tensioner is more robust than the Aisin tensioner. I recommend inspecting the Aisin tensioner annually for signs of leakage. My experience is that it will start seeping before you reach the next TB change interval (~105,000 mi.?). While the Honda OEM tensioner is stouter, it is ~2/3rds the cost of the entire Aisin TB/WP kit!
Reinstalling the serpentine belt on a Honda motor is much easier if you have an assistant and/or the special ratcheting serpentine belt tool. I often use nylon tie-wraps to temporarily hold the belt on the grooved pulleys while retracting the auto tensioner to loop the belt over the last pulley.
I prefer the KYB Excel-G struts for Honda applications. While it is more work, I suggest reusing the OEM springs with the KYB strut inserts instead of installing the entire Strut-Plus assemblies to ensure factory ride height and characteristics are maintained.
Serpentine belt tensioner always requires removal.
Agreed, I had one fail about 20-30k after install and the belt jumped 4-5 teeth.
Great job, and thanks to your dedication with the job from beigninng to end with sharing. Hopefully it serves you well for a longggg time to come.
Thank you! Although I still am a bit overwhelmed. Car seems to be working fine, 50 miles after the job, runs and drives well, steady idle, no DTC or misfires. Sounds good idling but seems like slightly different. I’ve followed all the steps as per manual with all the torque values etc honored. And I’m still worried I haven’t done something correctly. Anyhow, gotta fight them OCD demons.
Wanted to make a slight correction to my earlier write up:
1. I’ve stated that original timing belt looked good. After closer inspection I’m taking it back. It has substantial wear on the flat surface, and what’s even worse is that it did harden significantly. It almost feels plasticky. I’d imagine if ran for another 10-20k miles it would start cracking. So 8yrs or 90-100k miles is a justified interval for the original timing belt (at least for Texas climate).
2. Idler pulley had some surface pitting, and while bearing was still fine with no noise when spun, there was indeed higher friction compared to the new one.
3. Water pump gasket have also hardened but didn’t loose the elasticity, probably would’ve lasted another 50k miles or so.
Hope this helps someone on making the call on when to change the timing components.
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With good (OEM) parts used, the 100k recommendation (MOST of the time, depending on climate/use/etc) is very conservative. There's probably J-Series cars out there running around with 200k+ on the original belt.
Not saying you should extends that interval out, but good looking parts (except for the tensioners) are pretty common in J-Land.
Just like the valve adjustment, there's Hondas out there running around that have never been touched, but burning a valve is a cruel mistress that has probably sent some older cars to the salvage yard.
Not saying you should extends that interval out, but good looking parts (except for the tensioners) are pretty common in J-Land.
Just like the valve adjustment, there's Hondas out there running around that have never been touched, but burning a valve is a cruel mistress that has probably sent some older cars to the salvage yard.
I was looking at the old idler pulley, and it looks as if it can be accidentally installed “backwards”, at least the bolt fits in both directions (tight if installed backwards but still fits). Has this ever happened to anyone? Would it even worked if installed that way?
Yes, you have to pay attention to which way the idler pulley goes in. One way will work, the other way the pulley will be squeezed by the bolt and you won't be able to turn it after you tighten the bolt.
Could you recommend a decent spring compressor that would work in Honda pilot application?
I have a set of the Lisle spring compressors that work OK with most Honda struts, but I haven't used them on a Pilot. Here is a video that shows the Lisle spring compressor used on a Honda strut.
The Lisle tool is a better design than the similar type that you can get as a loaner tool from Autozone, Advance Auto & O'Reillys. If you choose to get a loaner tool, inspect it closely for wear/damage before leaving the store, especially look for galling of the jackscrew threads and damaged safety capture snap pins. If you have a good local independent garage that has a wall mounted Branick spring compressor, see if they will swap the cartridge for a reasonable fee if you bring in the strut assembly off the vehicle.
If you opt to do it yourself, here are a few tips to observe: (1) Use a paint marker to index each end of the spring in relation to spring perch and rubber cushions and which end of the spring is up, (2) lightly grease the threads on the jackscrews of the compressor tool, (3) max out the space between the coil attachment hooks to allow for more compression range, (4) if you use an impact wrench to turn the jackscrew, go slow and alternate sides to keep even tension, (5) stop as soon as the spring is loose and do not release the spring from tension until the new strut is in place and aligned with the index marks, (6) you will need to monitor and adjust the indexing as you release tension on the spring as it will rotate as it unwinds. Also, consider replacing the upper strut mounts unless the only reason for this repair is a leaking cartridge. I have used KYB upper strut mounts with success, but there are more than a few negative reviews on the internet.
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@The Critic I remember you mention somewhere that Aisin kit tend to produce “warbling” noise. Is that sort of like rhythmic purring sound on idle? I do believe that I’m hearing something similar. So far 200 miles driven after the job with no ill effects
@parshisa, please look at this 2 year old lengthy BITOG thread concerning another member's experience with the so-called "warbling" noise:
Aisin or Yamada Water Pumps
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I've used the lilse and Makita XWT08 to tighten. Twice on my 11 MDX and and twice on 08 Accord when I that to reseal the pump, replaced vtc actuator and timing chain kits. I tried to torque but couldn't get to 180 lbft so left them where they were (don't remember the exact torque).
Thought I'd put this out there since there is so much different information on what kind of mileage you can get out of the OEM Honda belts. I just have mine replaced on the 17 Accord at 105K miles. When I picked her up, mechanic said right after I left, another Accord pulled up, 3.5l V6, and the timing belt had torn/ripped but somehow managed to get it to his shop. It had 183K on it, all OEM. I really think you could take an OEM belt out to about 150K without worrying about it. That's what I'm doing next time.
I don’t think the belt is the issue, it’s the tensioner. Tensioner on mine was leaking for at least 20k miles (at least that’s when I noticed some sweating on it). I suppose as long as you are confident that tensioner will last that long, go for it. But it’s kind of risky if you ask me
