Acura "EGR Insufficient flow detected" RANT

[DuckRyder]

I swear to god they should have to fix these things for free forever! They know it is a problem, EPA knows it is a problem....

O.K., Maybe forever is a bit long, but the very least they could do is offer a complete gasket kit at a reasonably competitive price. In their defense they are nice gaskets, but ~$200.00 and having to piece it together is a bit absurd...

For what I am talking about see (and you can see the pictures without being registered):

Intake Manifold Removal and EGR Cleaning

Now there was an extended emission warranty for this for 96 and 97 models but they are all out of the extended warranty on time. My car had an EGR valve fail a few months out of the extension and now the dreaded "P0401 Insufficient EGR Flow Detected"...

Now they charged Acura for cleaning this at 98,000 miles, now at ~149,000 the manifold was much worse than the one pictured in the linked thread! The orifice was almost completely blocked!

Took hours of digging with a screwdriver and blasting with coarse crushed walnut shell media to get it clean (it is now much cleaner than the linked thread)

Frankly I suspect they did not remove and clean it...

Thanks, I feel better now...

 

[GSCJR]

I recall repairing a V6 Honda that required me to oversize the EGR opening on the manifold to correct this condition with a drill bit. Problem solved. Look into this.

 

[DuckRyder]

There was no mention in the TSB of enlarging the hole and I don't believe there is room to enlarge it, not by much anyway. The hole itself is reasonably large when clean.

Some folks do clean it with a drill bit without removing the manifold, but it is quite hard to get to owing to the firewall and engine orientation. It is difficult to get room to work on it and harder to get a shop vac or something down there to suck the loosened carbon out.

AFAIK the 3.5 RL is the only car to use the C35a 90 degree V6, the Accords are J series 60 degree V6's, however carboning of the EGR port seems to be a common issue with several variants of Honda engines.

Cars fixed, I am planning for it to have moved on the next time this needs to be done...

 

[artificialist]

The other thing that sucked about those cars is that low price aftermarket EGR valves would almost never function correctly.

I would often see this on a Honda Civic, not as often on one of those other cars mentioned here.

 

[DuckRyder]

For the most part I swore off all aftermarket parts some time ago unless the OEM is NLA or it addresses some known shortcoming with the OEM. Good to know I made the right call with the ~200.00 OEM EGR valve though...

These are also fairly notorious for "EGR LIFT" codes, I've now had both!

 

[ford46guy]

Same problem happens on 91-95 Ford 4.6L engines. There is a special code called P1407 for NO EGR FLOW DETECTED. There is also a metal crossover, but much easier to get to. If you let the problem go too long the tube gets clogged and there is more work.

I always thought it happens from the weak valve stem seals letting burnt oil go in. When the seals were replaced the issue has yet to come back...

 

[meep]

the 60degree V6 in our mdx is prone as well. massive EGR labrytinth that looks like the valve body on an Auto trans. cleaned that last year. lost the egr valve this year.

replacing the EGR valve has resulted in, get this, 4 mpg improvement. was getting ~15mpg in town. now 19.5.

 

[DuckRyder]

It does smoke some on startup first start of the day, but it does not burn an appreciable amount of oil (no more than 1/3 qt in 5000mi) and I'm absolutely not tearing the top end apart to fix that

Maybe if I still have it next time it is due a timing belt.

It did have a fair amount of oil in the intake manifold and I did also replace the PCV valve, so need to pay attention to the start up smoke in the morning.

Oddly enough in the two tanks post EGR cleaning it does seem to be getting better fuel mileage by a couple MPG.

I finally got it to set enough readiness codes to pass emissions. It can have 2 not ready being as old as it is and its always been a bit recalcitrant with setting evap readiness. Then when the inspector took the gas cap off the tester it fell apart in his hands... I think he was expecting me to go off on him but that is just par for the course on this car. He's like well at least it passed first...

Had to go to the Honda dealer and grab a gas cap - Accord Sport looks nice... Hmmm...

 

[SOHCman]

Wow, this reminds me of my accord clogging up its egr ports around 170k. Luckily on the inline 4 its just a matter of removing the injectors, and the egr manifold that lays across the top of the intake runners. The sign its cloged is a bog at about 2k rpm.

 

[Thermo1223]

Couple this with early TDI's clogging because of dirty fuel, EGR is a 4 letter word in some places.

You are right though when it does work more MPG is hard to argue with.

 

[DuckRyder]

It does seem to have improved the smoke on start up as well, I'm not sure if it is the cleaning of the oil in the manifold, the PCV, or if it is from the Mobil 1 High Mileage at last oil change. Could also be my imagination I guess...

What isn't my imagination is that I also fixed the leaking radiator and replaced the third ~400.00 window regulator...

The radiator was due to a missing bolt in a bracket that bolts to it, leaving the bracket vibrating on one bolt and cracking the mounting boss. Not sure if someone in the past left it out or if it simply fell out at some point.

The window regulator is another of those known problems Acura should have to fix forever...

So on to the dash bulbs (guess what that is

) and this little $1000.00 round of repairs should be done...

Can't wait to see what is next...

 

[Jarlaxle]

An ad on Craigslist?

 

[DuckRyder]

Well that was fun...

Be nice if someone told you the bulb numbers changed - kinda hard to follow what goes where when the part numbers aren't what you ordered.

Fun too that the instrument bulbs are UNDER a circuit board with some very small delicate connectors...

But, I got it done now when I sell it it'll be perfect...