ACLU at it again.

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The ACLU is threatening to take the State of California to court if they do not lose a cross in the state seal. The cross has been there for some 50 years. California of course has had a considerable Christian background since the time of the Spanish.

So when does the ACLU demand that the names of cities in California be changed? After all, we can't have Los Angeles (City of the Angels). What about San Diego and San Francisco?

I demand that the ACLU be consistent and sue if cities named after saints do not change their city names immediately.
 
I believe in the ACLU, but man do they need to learn to pick their battles.

rolleyes.gif


MR
 
You are looking at the wrong people if you want consistency. I would have more respect for the ACLU standing up for their beliefs except that their position is that the 2nd amendment is basically meaningless and does not apply to individuals. That kind of position in contrast to their ridiculous PETA-like zeal for the 1st, 4th and others exposes them as a lefty agenda dogmatic organization. They do not have to defend the 2nd and could limit themselves to certain rights, but to pooh-pooh it gives them no credibility. Therefore, I just turn off when they start spouting their nonsense on other matters.
 
Well...we all know what the ACLU stands for...Anti Christian Lucifer's Union...Also they are the legal arm of communists in the USA that hide themselves from most who don't have a clue as to what they are up to!
 
I was watching O'Reilly on FOX News and I almost fell out of my chair laughing! He pointed out to some woman supporter of a ACLU that also on the State Seal of California was a Greek goddess! I never even noticed myself-the Greek goddess is right up front and the cross is small and not very noticeable. That woman supporter of the ACLU said that the issue was about a religion (Christianity) being endorsed and did not have anything to do with the Greek goddess! It is okay to have a Greek Goddess but not a Christian Cross!

When O'Reilly pointed out that Los Angeles means City of the Angels and why doesn't the ACLU do something about cities named after saints, etc., she had no real answer for that! The ACLU probably knows that demanding name changes for cities would probably be going to far.

All of this shows just how phony the ACLU is! Okay to have other religious symbols from religions other then Christianity. Not okay to have a Christian Cross. Open discrimination against Christianity.

A dangerous game the ACLU is playing in a mostly Christian country. And they are rapidly destroying their good name.
 
quote:

Originally posted by cryptokid:
i agree. lets get rid of all the god propaganda through out cali and the rest of the states.

....yeah, and while we are at it, let's re-name Los Angeles (The Angels), and San Mateo (Saint Mateo), and so on!
rolleyes.gif


You people are attempting to re-write history!
 
We can rename cities, afterall it started with converting AD (Anno Domini) to CE (Common Era). So much more equality.....ahhhh.

Now we can rename the days of the week. Don't want to endorse worship of Norse gods you know....how white can you get???? Gotta rename the month of March. Roman god of war my a$$.

Nevermind that these Pagan and Christian origins underly the richness of our history. Let's strip it all away.
twak.gif
 
Logically it makes sense to have separation of Church and State. Our country is based on principals like that.

But also logically it is impossible to completely remove all mention of religion from the history books, etc. And unless all of the people in the USA suddenly stop being religious, it is silly to deny that religion is a part of society.

How do you remove mention of Jesus from Western World history? Cannot be done unless the historians are willing to lie. Jesus had too much influence on the Western World.

And if the ACLU is truly fair they would demand the removal of the Greek goddess and not just the Cross.

The ACLU people need to take some classes in logic. They need to pick their battles better. Do they really want the 65% or so people in this country who are religious against them? Do they really want a bad name in public? THINK ACLU-THINK!
 
quote:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof

This does not state a complete separation of church and state, and in fact this would be quite impossible. A man who bases his life on certain religious tenants cannot remove his religion from his political life. Look at the current Catholic issue going on right now with right to choose politicians. How can a Catholic politician say that he's pro choice and still believe as a Catholic that abortion is an abomination. It doesn't work. Religion is an integral part of our history. No, it shouldn't be forced down anyone's throat, but nor should every instance of it be removed from the public realm.
 
quote:

ACLU's War Against the Poor
By Star Parker
June 14, 2004

Storm troopers of the American Civil Liberties Union have chalked up their latest victory in their ongoing campaign to stamp out any hint of religion in American public life.

Under threat of an ACLU-initiated lawsuit, the Los Angeles County Board of Supervisors voted to remove a small cross from the seal of the State of California because of its alleged unconstitutional endorsement of Christianity.

Contrary to ACLU claims, these actions make our country less rather than more free.

This is of more than academic interest to me. The ACLU has invaded my home turf. The headquarters of my organization, the Coalition for Urban Renewal and Education (CURE), is in Los Angeles. But, more importantly, the ACLU is invading my turf in an ideological battle for the hearts, minds and souls of African-Americans in deeply damaged inner-city communities that CURE works to help rehabilitate.

ACLU has my folks targeted. From the ACLU Web site: "We work also to extend rights to segments of our population that have traditionally been denied their rights, including Native Americans and other people of color; lesbians, gay men and transgendered people; mental-health patients; prisoners; people with disabilities; and the poor. If the rights of society's most vulnerable members are denied, everybody's rights are imperiled."

My constituency is the poor, particularly the African-American poor, and I have a far different sense of what this community's problems and needs are than does the ACLU.

It is instructive, for instance, to scan through the groups that ACLU has lumped together under its umbrella of the oppressed. Freedom means nothing if one does not believe that, at the individual level, people have some kind of free choice. However, apparently for the scholars at the ACLU, there is no distinction in the role that personal choice plays regarding one's race, criminal behavior, sexual lifestyle, physical disabilities or economic status.

I started CURE 10 years ago as result of my personal experience with the welfare state and my conviction that its politics and programs destroy the very communities they claim to help. After seven years on welfare, I saw how the politics of entitlement and victimization destroy human dignity and initiative and produce slaves on a government welfare plantation rather than free, responsible human beings. My personal experience, along with data showing the damage that 40 years of welfare state politics has produced in America's inner-cities, paints a convincing picture that the welfare state/ACLU worldview produces anything but freedom and free men and women.

The truth of the matter is that the ACLU crusade against religion is a crusade against the core religious and moral values that have essentially been the software of the success of American freedom. The smokescreen under which this operation takes place is an illusion that for every religious symbol purged, we produce a more neutral and fair country. This is anything but true. Nature abhors a vacuum, and the purge of one value amounts to its replacement with another. In this case, traditional values of right, wrong and personal responsibility are displaced by relativism, materialism and, ultimately, the product of both of these, nihilism.

The civil-rights movement was defined by religion and moral passion. It was led by a black Christian pastor who never could have weathered the storm of daily death threats without being driven by a deep personal faith. His most famous speech, standing on the steps of the Lincoln Memorial, was laced with references to God and faith and a coming together of God's children.

As the civil-rights movement became politicized by ACLU-type liberals, values and personal responsibility were displaced by victimization politics. The result has been a social catastrophe in the African-American community. Thanks again to ACLU-type liberals, public schools that black children are forced to attend have purged all traditional values from education and, as a result, children have no clue why they are there and what the point is in education. These children are already most likely severely disadvantaged by coming from broken homes, also the product of the political purge of traditional values.

We now pay tribute to a great American president, Ronald Reagan, who inspired our nation with the vision of Puritan leader John Winthrop of a "city on a hill." Traditional values are woven into the fabric of America. African-Americans have paid a dear price for unfortunate moments in American history when they were not viewed as part of that fabric.

Let's not confuse a free and tolerant society with one with no moral underpinnings. Those moral underpinnings make it all possible.

-------------

Star Parker is president of CURE, the Coalition for Urban Renewal and Education (www.urbancure.org). She is author of "Uncle Sam's Plantation: How Big Government Enslaves America's Poor and What You Can Do About It."

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quote:

Originally posted by Mystic:
Logically it makes sense to have separation of Church and State. Our country is based on principals like that.


actually, the only thing the constitution mandated was that there not be a state SPONSORED church, not a complete separation of religion from the lawmaking process. that precident was set in 1948.
 
Just a few random thoughts...
In our predominantly Christian society;
The names of our days come, in order, from the Sun god, The Moon goddess, (Tuesday, I don't know) Woden, Thor, Frig, and Saturn-all Norse gods, I believe.
Month names come from various Roman and/or Greek gods, such as Januarius, a god who could see both forward and backward in time.
Christmas trees, representing eternal life, are from the ancient pagan German peoples,and the (Easter) egg is a pagan symbol for fertility and life.
In other words, our various One True/Pure/The Truth/I'm-Right-and-I'll-kill-the-nonbelievers religious beliefs and trappings are most often a COMPLETE MISH-MOSH of a lot of other cultures and times. Interesting, eh?
How about we all lighten up, and pick the best of any and all belief systems that allows us to live together in peace.
And tell the ACLU to take a long walk off a short pier.
 
I think the ACLU and many of their lawsuits is more about transferring money from the taxpayer to the pockets of the lawyers. Maybe there was a time when it was mostly donated time in support of principles, but now they usually end up collecting fat fees from the losing side.
 
While everyone here is busy ranting against the ACLU, I would like to point out one minor fact. At issue is the seal of the County of Los Angeles, not the State of California.

For something else to rant about, the bill to give drivers licenses to illegal aliens is alive again. The Governator had better get his veto pen ready.
 
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