ACDelco PF64 - C&P - Torn Media!

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Originally Posted By: webfors


Why is the upf64r not an option for you? Isn't the 22psi a minimum spec? I was considering making a case to use this filter on dealer oil changes.... in which I case I may consider running it longer.


Having that 35psi bypass setting bothers me, plus I don't even know where to get a UPF64R filter, either here in Canada or when I cross the border into Niagara Falls NY.

The Fram racing filter just doesn't appeal to me either, and even though they technically can't void your warranty, they sure can make things difficult for you when making a claim. I'd rather not give them any reason to try and fight with me if an issue were to happen. The PF64 makes life easy in that regard.
 
Originally Posted By: webfors
Originally Posted By: 4WD
Holy Toronto Patman… I’d have to think the internals were 10x better than what I saw in the filter I cut … but that might just be part of planned obsolescence ... Industry insiders have to know a certain number of filters fail … but if it’s one or two in the life cycle of a vehicle … it will make the minimum miles … and in my area head south for DT’s beautiful gate in the wall …

Well … the more we mill on this the more I’m sticking with Fram Ultra … have been watching oil pressure more … I don’t have a P&ID of the lube system … but those sensors can’t be too far from anything … I’m running 42 psi at startup and 38 psi hot and driving with little change in pressure … must be all this variable stuff doing that … filter is probably dumber to it all …
If GM really wants to make the case … make a better filter please … I’d pay the delta …


The Fram Ultra is simply a perfectly made filter IMO. I just cut two more open which I'm going to post shortly. If the bypass spec was 22, everyone would be using it. The conditions must be few and far between for a bypass event even at 12psi... ?

Especially when you consider this ATS is garage kept. It appears GM or AC Delco has not performed due diligence in the design and manufacturing of the PF64. The media is not strong enough for the bypass setting.
 
Originally Posted By: Patman
Originally Posted By: webfors


Why is the upf64r not an option for you? Isn't the 22psi a minimum spec? I was considering making a case to use this filter on dealer oil changes.... in which I case I may consider running it longer.


Having that 35psi bypass setting bothers me, plus I don't even know where to get a UPF64R filter, either here in Canada or when I cross the border into Niagara Falls NY.

The Fram racing filter just doesn't appeal to me either, and even though they technically can't void your warranty, they sure can make things difficult for you when making a claim. I'd rather not give them any reason to try and fight with me if an issue were to happen. The PF64 makes life easy in that regard.


https://www.rockauto.com/en/parts/acdelco,UPF64R,oil+filter,5340

Have it shipped and drive across and pick it up. That's what I do here in Ottawa. I go to Ogdensburg all the time (45 minutes drive).
 
GM does design the filter correctly, but the maker Champ Labs has been suffering "wide pleat." Even an M1 shown on here had a super wide pleat. They need to test the filters with wide pleats if they make them that way. There is always the PF63E. Which may have wide pleat too.

Funny when I show a defective Fram TG, worse defect than a torn pleat IMO, there is no condemnation of them. Every day thousands of PF64's are being installed, very common size. Maybe Cadillac will take note and Champ will tighten their QC on the pleating.
49.gif
 
Originally Posted By: goodtimes
GM does design the filter correctly, but the maker Champ Labs has been suffering "wide pleat." Even an M1 shown on here had a super wide pleat. They need to test the filters with wide pleats if they make them that way. There is always the PF63E. Which may have wide pleat too.

Funny when I show a defective Fram TG, worse defect than a torn pleat IMO, there is no condemnation of them. Every day thousands of PF64's are being installed, very common size. Maybe Cadillac will take note and Champ will tighten their QC on the pleating.
49.gif



Link to your defective TG please.

I think it's the type of failure. A media tear is more likely to happen than other defects. However, I am the last one to give any brand a pass for junk.
 
What would be useful would be a modern day study over how much 20 micron -vs- 30 micron … single pass and multiple pass -vs- contamination rate etc …

In other words if I could gain comfort in some of that … in build quality ~ the Wix XP makes the Fram Ultra look like fish sticks
(and I have used the FU for years)
 
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Originally Posted By: 4WD
What would be useful would be a modern day study over how much 20 micron -vs- 30 micron … single pass and multiple pass -vs- contamination rate etc …

In other words if I could gain comfort in some of that … in build quality ~ the Wix XP makes the Fram Ultra look like fish sticks
(and I have used the FU for years)


Is that picture from two filters for the same application? Please provide the link if you have a C&P with more pictures comparing the two.

Any links you might have to XP C&P's would be helpful. I haven't seen any, but I haven't searched that hard either :P
 
I cut filters as they come off of vehicles or when I buy a batch. In this case the new filter is a random XP10575 ($5.60 each eBay) and the XP is ——— the XG16 equivalent ran for one year as a transmission filter … it started to rain (then I left on a trip) so that’s where the light rust came from …

So what do I see in the XP?
1) heavy duty can/base/spin threads
2) well made filter media section over wire mesh
3) potting area is always full/even … seam minimum (need some room for pressing machine)
4) BPV is mostly metal (less cheap plastic)
5) no burrs around a well made ADV
6) springs are coil
7) heavy coat of paint

I have one left and and some XG16 in stash and could do a better post … (I just use them yearly)
 
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I see in the other thread on here that there is now a Wix WL10290 that is a direct replacement for the PF64, same size and 22psi bypass too! That sounds like the perfect solution for me! Does anyone know a good source for Wix filters, either in Southern Ontario or Niagara Falls, NY?
 
Originally Posted By: Patman
I see in the other thread on here that there is now a Wix WL10290 that is a direct replacement for the PF64, same size and 22psi bypass too! That sounds like the perfect solution for me! Does anyone know a good source for Wix filters, either in Southern Ontario or Niagara Falls, NY?


Benson Auto Parts carries Wix. However they are unaware of the new part number as of last week. Looking around, it appears this new wix filter is nowhere to be found. It must be very new.

The 57502 would be a great replacement. It's only .5 inches longer and has the 22psi bypass spec. It would be difficult for GM to void a warranty using a filter with the right bypass spec and more media.
 
I put together a little photo comparison of the PF64 and the 57502:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/lbc54kajkknmp00/AAAM2exrmuru4JOTziXrAeCda?dl=0

The external diameter of the two are identical, gaskets line up perfectly, and the 22psi spec is consistent between the two. Only difference is the .5 inch extra height. The depth of the media on the Wix is higher.. you can see inside the can how the diameter of the PF64 center tube is much wider, leaving less room for media. I would be surprised if there were less than 30% more media in the 57502 as a result.
 
I called a local place here that carries Wix filters and they also said the WL10290 must be a brand new part number as they aren't seeing anything about it yet.

I really don't want to go oversize on my Corvette because the stock sized filter already sits flush with the bottom of the oil pan. If I go longer, it will stick out, and my car is lowered so that poses a risk (albiet very slight) of road debris hitting it.

I will continue using the PF64 until I can get my hands on the new WL10290.
 
Originally Posted By: Patman
The Fram racing filter just doesn't appeal to me either, and even though they technically can't void your warranty, they sure can make things difficult for you when making a claim. I'd rather not give them any reason to try and fight with me if an issue were to happen. The PF64 makes life easy in that regard.


If your main concern is possible warranty denile over a non GM filter, then looks like the AC Delco is your only option.
 
I think I would be safe with a Wix or NAPA Gold filter on my car, as long as it was the proper size, but if they saw a "Fram Racing" filter on there, don't you think that would cause some raised eyebrows?
 
Originally Posted By: Patman
I think I would be safe with a Wix or NAPA Gold filter on my car, as long as it was the proper size, but if they saw a "Fram Racing" filter on there, don't you think that would cause some raised eyebrows?


I would go with the UPF64R if I wanted to stick with ACDelco. It appears to be a much better made filter and is apparently interchangeable with the PF64. GM would surely not void your warranty with that filter. Might be worth a conversation wit your service department.
 
Originally Posted By: Patman
I think I would be safe with a Wix or NAPA Gold filter on my car, as long as it was the proper size, but if they saw a "Fram Racing" filter on there, don't you think that would cause some raised eyebrows?

Shouldn't raise any more eyebrows than any other filter that is specified for your car. Same could be said about the AC Delco racing filter.
 
Originally Posted By: 4WD
In other words if I could gain comfort in some of that … in build quality ~ the Wix XP makes the Fram Ultra look like fish sticks


Dual layered wire backed fish sticks have high filtering efficiency. BTW, the bypass valve is high temp nylon, never seen any problem with the design. I go for performance over looks, along with good build quality and reliability of course, but that's just my preference. As always, people use what turns them on for whatever reason.
grin2.gif
 
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: Patman
I think I would be safe with a Wix or NAPA Gold filter on my car, as long as it was the proper size, but if they saw a "Fram Racing" filter on there, don't you think that would cause some raised eyebrows?

Shouldn't raise any more eyebrows than any other filter that is specified for your car. Same could be said about the AC Delco racing filter.


That's another filter I won't run under warranty either.

I'm perfectly happy now that there is both a Wix and NAPA Gold alternative for the PF64 now. Now if Fram would just come out with an Ultra that has the 22psi bypass and is the same size as the PF64, that would be amazing!
 
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