Abrupt shift from 1st to 2nd gear

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Originally Posted By: threeputtpar
That is just a basic characteristic of ZF transmissions and their programming.

Is it intentional? Or just something that the programmers couldn't figure out how to overcome?

I've asked on an audi forum, and it appears that only about 50% of respondents experience this issue with their Q5. That's across multiple engine options, but they all essentially use the same transmission. Wondering if the valve body mentioned by demarpaint is truly to blame here.


Originally Posted By: brandini
Also a nifty trick to simply avoid the shift shock... start in 2nd.

So, apparently this vehicle does not give you an option to start in 2nd.
smile.gif
 
Quattro Pete said:
Either I'm failing to explain the circumstances or you're failing to understand them. Let's just leave it at that. smile

You know, I was trying to contribute to your Audi difficulty, I am fully aware of what you are saying. The input and my experiences seem to be cause for condescension from you. Before I wised up in the mid 90s I had over time owned 42 cars, 28 of which were new cars. All seem to have needed some sorting. The three Audi’s (5000, 5000Turbo and a Quattro for Pete’s sake,
wink.gif
--I’m a glutton for punishment but a fan of Audi) needed the most sorting of all. So bad in fact that any time I needed a car to go any distance I just dropped off the Audi(s) at the dealer and used a loaner car instead. I see you also have a 530i. So did I, I bought it new in 1976 after already having owned a 73 450SE, a 72 Volvo 1800ES, three 442’s (64,66,68-yes there was a 64), a 67 Triumph TR250 and an Olds convertible or two (another weakness of mine). The list goes on including three ZX turbos, various Hondas, and the SE-R hero driver period, etc. up through the mid-90s. The upshot is that I have wasted more time and money on cars and their care and feeding than I care to admit. And like many here I am OCD about maintenance and cannot tolerate even the errant squeak in a car until it is tracked down. The point is I pay attention. I have broken many and fixed many. Although the line of thought provided by the tech I quoted seems counter-intuitive I do believe that your culprit is, as I said earlier, likely a programming issue. Cold start emissions control is a dark area under the emissions curve. Things like holding extended high RPM between shifts are well known (ask any MT Honda owner) and are used to help meet the cold start requirement. The tech I mentioned may have crossed up some terms but my guess is he refers to those sorts of things.

At any rate, be kind to a noob. Some of us aren’t so ….. new.
 
Originally Posted By: DeepFriar
Things like holding extended high RPM between shifts are well known (ask any MT Honda owner) and are used to help meet the cold start requirement.

DeepFriar, I will be old one day (I kind of already am), and may need simple things explained to me multiple times, so let me try it for the last time...

I am not questioning this emissions/warmup programming at all, but what you're describing here (holding higher RPM) normally takes at least a few minutes, because that's how long it takes to warm things up. What I am saying is that in my case this annoying 1-2 shift only happens right as I drive off, and does not happen again if I try to reproduce it 2 seconds later. If this abrupt 1-2 shift were a result of this emissions programming, it would surely not go away within just 2 seconds because that is not enough time to warm up anything.

Quote:

At any rate, be kind to a noob. Some of us aren’t so ….. new.

Welcome to BITOG. My apologies for coming across as abrasive. I just had a feeling we were misunderstanding each other, but maybe I was wrong.
 
Abrupt shift when cold?
Kinda like that single flare shift that some AW's did only cold and only at the 1st shift of the day.

I would visit dealer. Have them check the ATF level, and check for any/all engine/transmission/drivetrain software update.

Make sure that you are specific with issue. They might need you to drop off vehicle at night to see if tech can repeat issue in the morning. Drive another one off the dealer lot to see if it is a ZF commonality not worth worrying about.

For emissions, we simply let the transmission shift later to aid warm up. Shift does not need to be abrupt for emissions.

Fluid level, software, iffy sensor or solenoid, or defective valvebody... are what I'd worry about.
 
^^^Exactly. The strategy used by most domestic makers is simply to prevent TC lockup and very slightly delay the shift points. This will occur for a mile or two in very cold climates.

No way is it for one shift only. ZF is a smart slushbox, pretty good tech. I feel this unit has an issue...
 
Originally Posted By: Greasymechtech
Drive another one off the dealer lot to see if it is a ZF commonality not worth worrying about.

Thanks. I will certainly have them check it out the next time it goes in for service.

As far as the commonality, as I mentioned, the poll results I got from a Q5 forum indicate that about 50% of owners experience this issue and just thought it was normal. Sample size: 32. Granted, this is not very scientific.
 
It is intentional, as it is part of the programming to keep up rpms in the warmup phase. Once warmed up, my trans will actually shift out of first sooner than I'd like it to unless I really have my foot into it.

I've driven my SIL's 2014 Q5 2.0t in the winter, and it does the exact same thing. The only reason that your poll showed 50% of the respondents say theirs also does it is because the other 50% don't know or care to pay attention that much.
 
It does sound normal to me as well. But you can always call and ask the service manager about it and see what he/she says. Plus you can test drive a new one(or two) and see if that does it as well.
 
Originally Posted By: threeputtpar
It is intentional, as it is part of the programming to keep up rpms in the warmup phase. Once warmed up, my trans will actually shift out of first sooner than I'd like it to unless I really have my foot into it.

Can a warmup phase only last until the first shift of the day? To me, that's a bit odd. I've seen warmup phases that last for a few miles/minutes, but not one that only lasts a couple of seconds. That's not enough time to warm anything up, IMO.

Quote:
I've driven my SIL's 2014 Q5 2.0t in the winter, and it does the exact same thing.

Ours does it year round.
 
My wife has an '08 E60 BMW W/ a ZF 6hp something. Ever since it was new, the first 1-2 shift of the day is very abrupt. After that it is barely perceptible. It has always bothered me, she doesn't even notice. I don't know if they all do it or not, but apparently some do. We now have almost 90k on it w/ one fluid change. I have 7 immediate family members with 2013+ I6 and V8 BMW 2, 5, 6, X6 and 7 series cars, all with 8HP transmissions ranging from hundred of miles to over 60K, I'll ask if any of them notice an abrupt shift first thing in the morning on Sunday. I am sure the programming is different, but the hardware is probably pretty similar.

We also had a Mitsu Montero a few years ago that would slip, then slam the first 2-3 shift of the day, every day.
 
My 2014 RAM 3.6/8 speed trans did same thing. Changed trans valve body out fixed it. Was getting so bad from off idle that it chirped the tires on the 1-2 shift.
 
Like I said the other day, I'm thinking valve body. It is odd is is only happening for the first 1-2 shift, I doubt that is programming. I'd park it at the Audi dealership and take the key, go there first thing the next morning and be with the tech when he drives it to point out the problem to him myself. If they'll agree to do this I'm pretty sure you'll get to the bottom of it. While you're at it drive one or two that sat overnight and see if they do it. There are a lot of people with similar complaints so you should get an answer one way or another.
 
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
I'd park it at the Audi dealership and take the key, go there first thing the next morning and be with the tech when he drives it to point out the problem to him myself. If they'll agree to do this I'm pretty sure you'll get to the bottom of it.

Yes, this was essentially my plan from the get go. I just thought I'd ask for people's ideas in advance before I go through the trouble. Thank you for all the responses.
 
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete

Yes, this was essentially my plan from the get go. I just thought I'd ask for people's ideas in advance before I go through the trouble. Thank you for all the responses.



Pete, I'm sure you already checked the AudiWorld forums right?
Just in case you haven't looked, you are likely to find a good answer there.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Yes, that is where I got my info that about half of the Q5 owners polled responded that they exhibit the same issue.



I was also thinking that on a fairly regular schedule the Audi
district service rep tries to visit each dealership about once or twice a month. Why not ask when he is due in at the location you use for service and have them check it out. In cases like yours the DSM might be a good person to get involved. I know that manufactures hate consumer enthusiast sites but I would still politely mention to the rep that it appears that you are not alone in this and he might have a look at that thread over on AudiWorld. Keep us posted, I am curious about this, it sounds software related in my view, since it is so predictable, where as a slightly worn or out of spec valve body might not be so predictable in reproducing the occurrence.
 
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
I'd park it at the Audi dealership and take the key, go there first thing the next morning and be with the tech when he drives it to point out the problem to him myself. If they'll agree to do this I'm pretty sure you'll get to the bottom of it.

Yes, this was essentially my plan from the get go. I just thought I'd ask for people's ideas in advance before I go through the trouble. Thank you for all the responses.



You're welcome. Let us know what the outcome is! Good luck!
 
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