A Grease Story

[IH8mush]

Salesman write repair manuals.
Yeah, you bet.


This is correct

Link to Moab Jeeper Magazine shows the cover of the book

"Toyota Motor Sales LTD" in bold letters on the cover

Index page states expressed permission to copy the book in whole or in part need be given by the

"Toyota Motor Sales dudes"

The book was written by Salesmen, who in turn Educate the Toyota Techs,

Classic case of the Fox on duty at the hen house,

 

[Rix]

I know you can't understand a multi national corporation and how it works, frank, but your guess is wrong.

 

[IH8mush]

Originally Posted By: Rix
I know you can't understand a multi national corporation and how it works, frank, but your guess is wrong.


Correct I do not know how a multi nation corporation works not do I care,

But what I do know is grease and when this Multi national corp told me that this semi fluid grease in the knuckle and wheel bearings was "Molybased" and that they had a "Privacy Act"

I knew they where full of [censored].

So no guessing about it, dead on, Facts, from grease and oil specialists
And Facts from different manufactures that use the same design and all of them spec a fluid lube,

Facts,

Nonsense from Toyota about grease, just a phone call or drive to the dealership away,

Sad Fact of the matter,

What grease does your dealership use RIX??

 

[Rix]

You got info from a dealership, not the corporation, that's one of the things you've lied about.

This thread is out of place in this site, I wouldn't feel bad at all if it was deleted, this website is far better than your nonsense, frank.

 

[JZiggy]

Mentioned this thread over on Pirate4x4.com. Looks like Frank (and his grease) already has a reputation...

 

[IH8mush]

Originally Posted By: JZiggy
Mentioned this thread over on Pirate4x4.com. Looks like Frank (and his grease) already has a reputation...


Yep,

Sure do, I posted on pirate, went thru the different sections of Rigs and asked if anyone knew about

Short fiber grease for Dodge, What International meant by 38 OZ of viscous chassis lube

Or what Ford meant by "Proper Lube"

OR Sodium grease in the #0 form or what the Rover semi-fluid grease was

Since these terms where not recognized it was regarded as Spam

This goes back to far, 70 plus years, before the information age,
Or I should say Misinformation,

I have been banned from, Ih8mud, Pirate, Yota tech, all sorts of smaller websites for presenting information that is well disputed by these on line Toyota sales sites,

This is what manufactures use for this axle, bottom line, Folks just dont understand, or if they do know, would rather you not know about it,

So hopefully Bob here will recognize whats going on and that is Toyota is playing the grease game with folks,

I have sent a prominent axle builder here in the North West a sample of this grease that is considered Outdated by Toyota Sales,
Longfield, when I first presented this info on IH8mudd I was suprized at the lack of knowledge on the finer details of this design, As mention this ignorance is intentional, basically when the subject comes up, well versed Toyota propagandists "Obfuscate" this situation,

Pirate is a Mushroom Factory

 

[IH8mush]

Originally Posted By: Rix
You got info from a dealership, not the corporation, that's one of the things you've lied about.

This thread is out of place in this site, I wouldn't feel bad at all if it was deleted, this website is far better than your nonsense, frank.


The only problem here is Rix is that is not nonsense, real Facts, real grease history, and interesting,

While this form of grease is rarely seen seldom used, it does have its applications,

And that would be, Sodium thickener is the strongest of the grease thickeners used, more oil can be contained in the grease
so Oil for the most part does all of the things you want grease to do, lubing, absorbing moisture, and so on
While the thickeners can add adhesion or cohesion properties,

So that is why this type of grease is used in "non oil tight power transmission devices"

IE the closed steering knuckle, and since it does such a good job in those axle, I stick it in other applications,

Only one problem with this stuff, not compatible with any other type of grease,

So it was decided long ago that is was better to give grease monkeys only one type of grease to use, Lithium based, more versital, no chance of leakage in the #2 form,

But it is on the bottom of the totem pole as far as grease based go, This is evident by Schaffers using a aluminum complex grease,
Specialty Calcium based Red line greases for higher drop points,

And as far as drop points are concerned to much attention is given to this,
More importantly is "Returnability" that is that grease will return to its original state after being heated and cooled,
Lithium based grease, not so good at this

This is why you see aluminum complex greases like schaffers as well as other reasons I am sure,

 

[JZiggy]

Holy [censored], what did you say to get banned on YotaTech?

 

[IH8mush]

Originally Posted By: JZiggy
Holy [censored], what did you say to get banned on YotaTech?


Just what I have been saying all along, these axles are filled with a gooey mess of grease, from the factory,

Its just that the mainstream diagnosis of this lube is axle seal failure,

They just dont want to admit they have been wrong about something as simple as grease,

But some parts of grease are not simple, very complex and the misconceptions abound about the stuff,,,

 

[JZiggy]

It would be really interesting to see some data that shows this grease to be superior... maybe set up two hub assemblies with wheels/tires on a frame, load them up and spin with an electric motor for a few thousand hours, and compare the results?

 

[IH8mush]

Originally Posted By: JZiggy
It would be really interesting to see some data that shows this grease to be superior... maybe set up two hub assemblies with wheels/tires on a frame, load them up and spin with an electric motor for a few thousand hours, and compare the results?


Actually I have a test Rig in the works right now, nothing special just real world usage the 1971 Ford F 250 on one side about 6 years ago I re-worked the drivers side because of a worn upper Trunnion bearing, the passenger side was still tight so I left it alone,
When I asked around about what Type of grease or lube to use at the time I was told that originally 80-90w oil went in there but since the ball rusts and pits I would be wasting my time and to just pack it full of #2 regular wheel bearing grease,

This is what the guy selling me the parts said, while I wondered a bit, that all sounded about right so that is exactly what I did, this is the problem, the mechanic looks at the thing, sees a Fill plug and figers a fluid goes in there,
But The "parts dudes" will say no thats a inspection hole,
Silly grease monkey,

So while the information that I got was incorrect,

Now since I began looking into this, examining axles that like mine had the correct grease in one side, and a thick regular grease in the other, I could see a build up of dirt in the side that has the "Dry" grease,

This is the main problem, the Wiper seal does not keep out dirt and contaminates with a regular #2 grease,
I have seen up to a inch build up of Dirt inside the ball when a incorrect grease is used,

It is common knowledge that a DRY seal is not effective,

This is the test Rig, I started the test 6 years ago with out even knowing it,

 

[IH8mush]

The Dry Side,

 

[IH8mush]

The Original Wet Side, actually that is what some of the old boys refer to this axle as a "Wet Knuckle"

While it looks nasty it is "Original" almost 40 years old, the coating of grease clings to the exposed steel to prevent rusting and pitting,

So sure the seal is old and it is discharging more than it should
but it doesnt leak

Also with the material used the Felt wiper oil seal this material is porous and the semi fluid will absorb into this and climb up the seal and coat the entire ball due to a phenomonem called "capillary action"

 

[JZiggy]

Don't know a lot about knuckle balls and seals, but couldn't that leaking issue be resolved with an improved seal design?

 

[IH8mush]

Originally Posted By: JZiggy
Don't know a lot about knuckle balls and seals, but couldn't that leaking issue be resolved with an improved seal design?


The seal design has remained unchanged for over 70 years, it is quite good as it is,

While there are aftermarket seals that are made out of newer type materials these original style seals work just fine for many years,
The Ford is a good example of that, and the coating of grease is desired to protect the bare exposed steel,

 

[erock]

Originally Posted By: IH8mush
The situation is that I went to Toyota,


Not true. You went to one dealership and got bad information.


Originally Posted By: IH8mush
After Toyota told me they had a "Privacy Act" about this semi fluid grease


Example of bad information. I've already explained this to you Frank - Privacy Act has NOTHING to do with intellectual property; it deals with personal information.

Originally Posted By: IH8mush
So If Toyota can fill these wheel bearings full of this semi fluid grease and get almost unlimited mileage with out service,


Toyota never did and you have continuously failed to provide any compelling information to support your assertion.

Originally Posted By: IH8mush
And Rix these guys know grease,so we will get to the bottom of this and Why Toyota has a "Privacy Act"


Are you still going to stick with the Privacy Act nonsense?

 

[JZiggy]

It occurs to me too that if Toyota designed their knuckles to work with a specialized fluid they could benefit by selling that fluid under a Toyota brand, like they do with their overpriced coolant. Like Honda does with their power steering fluid, coolant, transmission fluid, etc. and so on. It doesn't make sense that Toyota would change the spec to an MP grease in that case: unless they hope that folks will use it and their product will wear out prematurely?

 

[erock]

Originally Posted By: JZiggy
It occurs to me too that if Toyota designed their knuckles to work with a specialized fluid they could benefit by selling that fluid under a Toyota brand, like they do with their overpriced coolant. Like Honda does with their power steering fluid, coolant, transmission fluid, etc. and so on. It doesn't make sense that Toyota would change the spec to an MP grease in that case: unless they hope that folks will use it and their product will wear out prematurely?


Exactly. And since Toyota doesn't sell a special grease, it doesn't make any sense at all to be misleading about what they originally installed, what the factory service manuals recommend, or what dealerships use during servicing. If these parts actually wore out within any sort of interval that would be considered substandard, it might make sense from a "sale of replacement parts" standpoint. But they don't, so it doesn't make any sense. Except to Frank.

 

[pottymouth]

Originally Posted By: IH8mush
I have sent a prominent axle builder here in the North West a sample of this grease that is considered Outdated by Toyota Sales,
Longfield, when I first presented this info on IH8mudd I was suprized at the lack of knowledge on the finer details of this design, As mention this ignorance is intentional, basically when the subject comes up, well versed Toyota propagandists "Obfuscate" this situation,


I have no dog in this fight, but I can't help but notice many statements that go nowhere like the above. So, you sent "a prominent axle builder" a sample of your grease. Who is he? What happened? I can send Roush a dirty diaper, what exactly does it prove?

I'm potentially open minded to what you have to say, but you are not providing any evidence of anything. You assert that Toyota originally used a different lubricant in these applications but have nothinbg to back it up. You also provide no independent proof that your product is superior in the application.

Seems to me it's time to put up or shut up.

 

[Rix]

Originally Posted By: pottymouth
Originally Posted By: IH8mush
I have sent a prominent axle builder here in the North West a sample of this grease that is considered Outdated by Toyota Sales,
Longfield, when I first presented this info on IH8mudd I was suprized at the lack of knowledge on the finer details of this design, As mention this ignorance is intentional, basically when the subject comes up, well versed Toyota propagandists "Obfuscate" this situation,


I have no dog in this fight, but I can't help but notice many statements that go nowhere like the above. So, you sent "a prominent axle builder" a sample of your grease. Who is he? What happened? I can send Roush a dirty diaper, what exactly does it prove?

I'm potentially open minded to what you have to say, but you are not providing any evidence of anything. You assert that Toyota originally used a different lubricant in these applications but have nothinbg to back it up. You also provide no independent proof that your product is superior in the application.

Seems to me it's time to put up or shut up.

He sent Bobby Long (of longfield super axles) a package with several types of grease in it.
I'm not sure what he was trying to get out of it, some form of support from longfield?

My only gripe is the toyota thing, I could care less about dodge, ford, old jeep stuff, I'm not in those fields, so I don't care, or know much about them.
frank's story about japan filling them with #0 grease, that's supposed to flow thorugh, in around, etc the knuckles and wheel bearings is my gripe, because it's not true.
anything after about 1980ish for sure, had 2 different types of grease, one in the wheel bearing, another in the knuckle.

Neither of which were #0 soupy stuff.