A Fram oil filter leak found 2 days after mounting.

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Originally Posted by demarpaint
Originally Posted by Eddie
I usually let my engine run for ~ 5 minutes and check for any leaks, then put the under cover back on.The job wasn't complete until the new filter is checked for leaks. Ed

That was oil change 101 in shop class. After changing the oil and filter run the engine and check for leaks before driving away.

Yeah I do the same thing. There is no leaks in the beginning. Only happened to notice a couple days later super slow leak.
 
Originally Posted by hallstevenson
Originally Posted by Farnsworth
I can see why you would never Fram again, just like others never Wix or never that.

I laugh at people who use one instance and rule things out 'forever'. Everyone, every company, and so on can make a mistake so one day people like those will run out of options or choices.

Yes be glad you don't have that trait! It's a curse. Lol I'm very brand loyal 99% the time and with that sometimes it bites me in the butt. It's just who I am though
cheers3.gif
 
Just so we get some perspective here ...
All products have failures. We, the consumers, hope it never happens to us; we want it to happen to the other guys and gals buying stuff. But eventually it happens to us. Does not matter if it's a tooth-brush missing bristles, a TV that fails to have sound after 2 months, a tire that has tread separate after 10k miles, or an oil filter that has a bad crimp after two days.

NOTHING IS PERFECT. Not one brand or product is immune.

What we want to see is a low failure rate; a very low propensity for non-conformity to the design intent. This ensures that the vast majority of consumers gets a good product. But it's not realistic to think that a product will never suffer failure, as a brand or a component, etc. There will always be episodes that concern us. There will even be periods of time where an escalation of failures seems untenable to our hyper-sensitive nature.

But overall, I see no indication that Fram products fail at any higher rate than other brands in the market place.


The Fram here failed. It that had happened to me, I would have contacted them and made them aware, and offered to ship it to them for analysis. Most every manufacturer of any product likes to get stuff back so they can do tear-down analysis to improve the breed.
 
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Originally Posted by Al
Thats why I ike the filter installation in both my Subaru's. Leave it to subaru to be innovative. I put in a Fram Ultra the day I got it home.

I like the ease of the top location - but I dont like the dry starts everytime, That's an engine killer.

Did you find a filter that doesn't empty in 3 minutes? The service part Blue Fram doesn't hold oil.

Had 3 FB engines and NONE held hot oil over 3-5 minutes.
 
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Originally Posted by dnewton3
I had a Wix once right out of the box have a missing gasket. Considering it came from behind the counter and was pristine, I assume it was shipped that way.

Mistakes happen.

I thought this only happened to me.
I bought a MC FL-400S from WM as I usually do. I always take the filter out the box to check for dings and dents. Upon opening, no gasket. I take the filter out and the gasket was stuck to the dome end. I chose another MC filter and gave the other filter to a mgr.
I wonder if he installed the gasket and put it back on the shelf?
21.gif

Yep, mistakes sure do happen.
 
Originally Posted by clinebarger
I had a Wix leak on me from the crimp......Stuff happens man!!

Yep. Failures with even the higher quality parts.
 
Originally Posted by dnewton3
Just so we get some perspective here ...
All products have failures. We, the consumers, hope it never happens to us; we want it to happen to the other guys and gals buying stuff. But eventually it happens to us. Does not matter if it's a tooth-brush missing bristles, a TV that fails to have sound after 2 months, a tire that has tread separate after 10k miles, or an oil filter that has a bad crimp after two days.

NOTHING IS PERFECT. Not one brand or product is immune.

What we want to see is a low failure rate; a very low propensity for non-conformity to the design intent. This ensures that the vast majority of consumers gets a good product. But it's not realistic to think that a product will never suffer failure, as a brand or a component, etc. There will always be episodes that concern us. There will even be periods of time where an escalation of failures seems untenable to our hyper-sensitive nature.

But overall, I see no indication that Fram products fail at any higher rate than other brands in the market place.


The Fram here failed. It that had happened to me, I would have contacted them and made them aware, and offered to ship it to them for analysis. Most every manufacturer of any product likes to get stuff back so they can do tear-down analysis to improve the breed.



Really good post here by Dn3 ^^^^^^^

Spot on.
 
It's sometimes hard to tell where oil leaks from. I wonder if some of the crimp leaks etc are actually due to over tightening the flat gasket? I am pretty sure they have a yield point and actually seal less the more they are tightened after that, much less. The rubber loses it's structure. 3/4 turn and that's it should cause no problems, or whatever the can says on it.
 
Originally Posted by David1
Originally Posted by hallstevenson
Originally Posted by Dragon44
I honestly was so mad I just vented to the store I bought it from.
That's ridiculous that you took it out on them.... It should have been nothing more than saying, "hey, I just bought this filter yesterday and installed it today but it's got a hairline crack. Can I exchange it?".

And what's with all of the Fram apologists ? I use Fram myself but crap happens. Saying it happens to Wix, etc, etc just sounds petty.


Why did you do that?? Did you actually think the salespeople at the store actually made the oil filter for you?

I work in auto parts and when people are unhappy with a product they come back and like to talk to me as if I made the part myself. Most times I tell them, for instance, i say Drivework Bearings in your car??
I would get Timken or NTN or SKF or if you can't wait at least National.. Then they buy Driveworks aka Whitebox brand and the Bearing fails in 3 months... They come back and yell at me.

Plus they want $ to pay the mechanic for labor then I have to explain that we don't cover labor for warranties with parts.. It's a replacement warranty...

Then they say well I want my $ back and I have to explain its not a $ back warranty. It is a replacement warranty.

You get what you pay for...

Plain and simple...

I don't take crap off people who come in and want to scream and yell at me as if I created their problem.
Be responsible for your own decisions

My dad is VERY bad at this!
He owns a 56 Buick Roadmaster, 322 Nailhead, auto, etc. He needed a battery for it, so he went to the local NAPA and asked for the CHEAPEST battery for the Buick. Parts dude gave him a $50 battery with a 3 month warranty.
After 4 months the battery would not hold a charge. He went back to NAPA and started chewing rear ends. They told him very calmly that what he bought was a 3 month warranty battery and there was nothing they could do. He left steaming mad. I tried to explain to him, "You get what you pay for!"
 
Originally Posted by ARCOgraphite
Originally Posted by Al
Thats why I ike the filter installation in both my Subaru's. Leave it to subaru to be innovative. I put in a Fram Ultra the day I got it home.

I like the ease of the top location - but I dont like the dry starts everytime, That's an engine killer.

Did you find a filter that doesn't empty in 3 minutes? The service part Blue Fram doesn't hold oil.

Had 3 FB engines and NONE held hot oil over 3-5 minutes.


Oil remains in bearings. When I start the oil light goes out instantly. I have yet to hear a hint any "rattle" (Nada/zero) on any startup with either my FA or FB engine. I would guess subaru is smarter than most of us here.

Also remember there is almost zero bearing load on startup. I had a Ford Ranger Pickup and it sounded terrible every time you started it. Last I knew of it it had 140K miles on it.
 
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Originally Posted by ARCOgraphite
I like the ease of the top location - but I dont like the dry starts everytime, That's an engine killer.


My Tacoma has a verticle base down filter. I use filters with a silicone ADBV, and never have a dry filter at start-up. I need to punch a hole in the.dome end before removing the filter or else it pukes oil all over.
 
Originally Posted by dlundblad
Photos would be nice.

You'd think a crack on the dome would leak much much more than a few drops.

I know I'm mad at myself I didn't take pictures. In a frustrated mind set I just took it back to the shop to return it. Luckily it was just a little leak!
 
Originally Posted by Eddie
I think manufactures probably try for a 6 Sigma + quality level. I think that relates to an error level of 0.999999%. Ed

Six Sigma refers to a quality level in which a process produces 99.99966% defect free product.

Assuming that the data set from a feature measurement displays normality (the shape of the distribution of the data measured), six standard deviations of the measured data (six sigmas) must fall within acceptable quality levels in order to be considered conforming to Six Sigma standards.

It is dangerous to talk statistics and statistical applications on BITOG. It usually leads to shouting matches and locked threads.

For those of you that are patient and interested, here's a great stepping off point with W Edwards Deming. Deming built the bedrock for the entire Japanese post war manufacturing system and he is the reason that Japan was able to develop such consistently high quality standards in their products. Deming is old and slow in the video, which appears to be from the late 80s or early 90s but the concepts here are rock solid and still applicable today. Enjoy!!
 
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Frankly I think it is too soon to blame leaks on a can crack or with the Wix, the crimp. Need more proof. I was trying to tighten some plastic water unions with flat gaskets, more tightening created worse leaking until I put a new gasket and didn't over tighten. Another example is a garden hose washer. All the rubber is still in there, but once it's structure is broken down, it doesn't spring back enough and apply force to seal. Since operator error is a big unknown, it seems it is hard to believe leaks unless there is some actual specific proof of a crack or the crimp is expanded and leaks.
 
It's pretty easy to see the source of a leak by visual inspection if you know how to approach the trouble shooting process - ie, clean the area well and watch for new leakage. A leak on the dome end of an oil filter would be easily identifiable.
 
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by ARCOgraphite
I like the ease of the top location - but I dont like the dry starts everytime, That's an engine killer.


My Tacoma has a verticle base down filter. I use filters with a silicone ADBV, and never have a dry filter at start-up. I need to punch a hole in the.dome end before removing the filter or else it pukes oil all over.

My cousin used to own a 2012 Tacoma, V6. He had the same filter location, on the very top of the engine. He ran FRAM TG oil filters. And, yes, it gets messy if you don't punch a hole in the dome end.
 
Originally Posted by Imp4
Originally Posted by Eddie
I think manufactures probably try for a 6 Sigma + quality level. I think that relates to an error level of 0.999999%. Ed

Six Sigma refers to a quality level in which a process produces 99.99966% defect free product.

Assuming that the data set from a feature measurement displays normality (the shape of the distribution of the data measured), six standard deviations of the measured data (six sigmas) must fall within acceptable quality levels in order to be considered conforming to Six Sigma standards.

It is dangerous to talk statistics and statistical applications on BITOG. It usually leads to shouting matches and locked threads.

For those of you that are patient and interested, here's a great stepping off point with W Edwards Deming. Deming built the bedrock for the entire Japanese post war manufacturing system and he is the reason that Japan was able to develop such consistently high quality standards in their products. Deming is old and slow in the video, which appears to be from the late 80s or early 90s but the concepts here are rock solid and still applicable today. Enjoy!!


It's a bit more complicated than that. Much of it depends upon how you believe the math represents certain assumptions such as sigma-shift over time, etc.

But as a GENERALIZATION, 6-sigma will result in 2700 defects per million, ignoring the sigma shift topic.
We shoot for 4-sigma; 67 DPMO.
Which again proves that nothing is "perfect".
 
Quote
…..Leave it to subaru to be innovative......
I'm not sure how "innovative" this Subaru filter location.

As for topic, without a pic difficult to say much beyond [censored] happens. Hopefully with most of them a pre purchase/installation inspection avoids any issue, but not always the case. Once had a leak on a dealer installed Toyota Denso with P type gasket. Don't know cause, perhaps overtightened because tightening made no difference. Dealer replaced FOC, said there was recall for the filter. Think the explanation bs.

[Linked Image]
 
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