A comparison of Mobil 1 and Amsoil EaO oil Filters

Status
Not open for further replies.
Originally Posted By: FZ1
Some of us are not trying to get "max value" of $10-20 a year relative to a $25,000 automobile. I'll run a medium priced filter and synthetic oil (M1 and PP) and dump it every 6 mos at about 4000-4500 miles. Hey,I'm a big picture guy. Lol.



Are you trying to waste money
54.gif


You should always be looking to get the maximum value ..on anything.

The point I was making that it makes little sense to use a top tier filter if your dumping the oil anyway in a short OCI. You're not getting enough particle accumulation to bother with it. You'll spend too much money for not enough utility. Wasting money - getting low value out of it.

OTOH, if you're not throwing out your oil and money like yesterday's underwear for out often coveted "peace of mind quotient"..then you can get your MONEY'S WORTH out of a more expensive filter that offers better filtration than the $2.xx cheapie.

Over a 15k/year usage, you will not (typically) load a filter to saturation. The level of filtration will vary ..as will your particle accumulation.
 
I'll stick with the Amsoil EAO over the Mobil 1 filters after reading problems that possibly occurred due to highly restrictive M1 filter media. Makes sense to me that the more contaminants removed from oil is due to tightly woven media, but this also restricts the flow of lubricants.
 
Every oil filter is highly restrictive. Try pouring room temperature oil (more than likely 70F+) through the center well. I'll bet you over flow it before it passes through the media. You'll stop ..wait ..pour ..stop ..wait.

It's masked in all filters when the pump isn't in relief (and for Soupaboosah) and at extremely ultra high volume.
 
Originally Posted By: cordeen
I'll stick with the Amsoil EAO over the Mobil 1 filters after reading problems that possibly occurred due to highly restrictive M1 filter media. Makes sense to me that the more contaminants removed from oil is due to tightly woven media, but this also restricts the flow of lubricants.


There's no telling how many M1 filters I have used in various engines. I started useing them when they first came out. Simply put, I have never had a problem with them. I'm sure the Amsoil filter is equal to the M1, but I have never heard of your claim of restriction before or seen any kind of proof of that.
 
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Every oil filter is highly restrictive. Try pouring room temperature oil (more than likely 70F+) through the center well. I'll bet you over flow it before it passes through the media. You'll stop ..wait ..pour ..stop ..wait.


I wouldn't go as far as saying "every oil filter is highly restrictive." ... but I would say every oil filter has some restriction to flow, and some are comparably more restrictive than others under the same operating conditions.

Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
It's masked in all filters when the pump isn't in relief (and for Soupaboosah) and at extremely ultra high volume.


Yep, agree with the restriction being masked due to the positive displacement flow of the oil pump when not in relief mode. But what's not masked or readily apparent with a more restrictive filter is the operation of the filter's bypass valve in terms of when it is or is not in bypass mode. As discussed before regarding the filter’s bypass valve operation, its operation depends on many factors.
whistle.gif
 
Take two filters side by side....EAO VS M1. Pour oil into each one and see what happens.
You will find that the oil going into the Eao will go in just like there was no filter media.
 
Originally Posted By: harry j
Take two filters side by side....EAO VS M1. Pour oil into each one and see what happens.
You will find that the oil going into the Eao will go in just like there was no filter media.



Which begs the question of whether that's good or bad. So long as the filter does its job without spending too much time in bypass, I'd rather have the filter that does a better job removing grime from my oil. Of course, if it does such a good job, that it's restrictive to the point that the bypass is often open, then perhaps the fine filtration filter defeats its own purpose.
 
Originally Posted By: harry j
Take two filters side by side....EAO VS M1. Pour oil into each one and see what happens.
You will find that the oil going into the Eao will go in just like there was no filter media.



And that means what{nothing?} in a engine that utilizes a pump to circulate oil under pressure through the filter and entire lubrication system??????
 
Originally Posted By: ekpolk
Originally Posted By: harry j
Take two filters side by side....EAO VS M1. Pour oil into each one and see what happens.
You will find that the oil going into the Eao will go in just like there was no filter media.



Which begs the question of whether that's good or bad. So long as the filter does its job without spending too much time in bypass, I'd rather have the filter that does a better job removing grime from my oil. Of course, if it does such a good job, that it's restrictive to the point that the bypass is often open, then perhaps the fine filtration filter defeats its own purpose.


It's all a fine balance between filtering efficiency, media restriction, media surface area and the bypass valve setting. You could make a very high efficiency filter by using the right media, then designing the filtering surface area and bypass setting in order to reduced the pressure drop across the filter and ensure the bypass only opens when it really should (ie, extreme cold start conditions, very high RPM with high flow pumps and extreme filter media loading with debris).
 
Originally Posted By: qship1996
Originally Posted By: harry j
Take two filters side by side....EAO VS M1. Pour oil into each one and see what happens.
You will find that the oil going into the Eao will go in just like there was no filter media.



And that means what{nothing?} in a engine that utilizes a pump to circulate oil under pressure through the filter and entire lubrication system??????


You have to keep in mind that there is a pressure drop across the filter based on filter restrictiveness, oil viscosity and oil flow conditions, and even is all the volume is forced through the filter, there could still be unwanted bypassing of oil if the filter is not designed well as mentioned in the post before this one.

We all trust these filter manufactures to designers/test their filters to ensure the filter works as it should, and not be so small or restrictive, or the bypass valve setting too low to cause excessive filter bypassing.
 
Yawn ..obsession on bypass activity is really way over rated. Someone else can do all the work that I did when people said the same stuff a couple of years ago.

Maybe this new guy will show you on his Honda ..and you can "imagine" that you're in VTECH with your engine 24/7/365

This is truly a tempest in a teacup ..much ado about nothing.

Don't worry. Your engine and your filter don't care that you worry so much. They're not going to do "busy" work just because the boss has them on his mind.
grin2.gif
 
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Yawn ..obsession on bypass activity is really way over rated. Someone else can do all the work that I did when people said the same stuff a couple of years ago.

Maybe this new guy will show you on his Honda ..and you can "imagine" that you're in VTECH with your engine 24/7/365


Guess we'll just have to wait for his test data and methodology to find out. Keep in mind that for 99.8% of the cars out on the road that the filter hardly ever goes into bypass - unless it's really clogged up or some manic revs the [censored] out of his engine on a cold startup in the middle of winter.
LOL.gif


But you start putting filters with an 8-10 psi bypass valve on a high revving engine with a high volume oil pump with high viscosity oil and the filter will be in bypass quite often ... even with hot oil. You don’t have any data or hands on tests with something under those conditions to say otherwise ... in fact, I doubt anyone on this board does at this time. But I'll bet if someone did an accurate test (measured filter PSID and compared it to the bypass valve setting) under these conditions you'd see lots of bypass action.
whistle.gif
 
There are always exceptional circumstances. You can always manage to find your mother's cousin's sister's friend if you want to.

For the vast majority, it's not a matter to worry about. If you've got a gauge, and it sits peaked when cold, you're assured of some elevated PSID across the filter. The amount will be variable. Once you're within the full range of the gauge (that is, you are always below peak cold pressure) then the odds of a relief event, outside of severe loading, is very unlikely ...regardless of the bypass valve setting. It's not the setting that creates the PSID. The bypass setting limits the PSID ..and nothing more.

That is, why would an 8 psid bypass valve be any more prone to opening ..if you never hit 5psid? It's baseless to form conclusions on that basis alone.

But if you're a "hard driver" with a true high volume setup ..and live more in the upper end of your output range ..far more than in the startup cold scenarios ..then you can really focus on these events as they're constructed.

However you'll see more such events every cold start than you ever will in "fast & furious"
grin2.gif
 
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan

For the vast majority, it's not a matter to worry about.


I've qualified my inputs about this many times that it is not on your "everyday beater commuter car" ... but rather on high performance engines (high volume/pressure oil pumps) driven very hard ... along with the possibility of a filter not suited for such an application.

Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
If you've got a gauge, and it sits peaked when cold, you're assured of some elevated PSID across the filter. The amount will be variable. Once you're within the full range of the gauge (that is, you are always below peak cold pressure) then the odds of a relief event, outside of severe loading, is very unlikely ...regardless of the bypass valve setting. It's not the setting that creates the PSID. The bypass setting limits the PSID ..and nothing more.


That's a pretty broad statement that doesn't cover all possibilities. There are always exceptions to the "general rule" ... and that's what I'm focusing on ... even though you take it that I think it applies to every car on the road. It doesn't - I've stated (qualified) that many times.

If you used an oil filter that was relatively restrictive, and also had a low bypass valve setting, you could very well still have filter bypass going on when the oil pump is not in relief mode. It all depends on the combination of factors involved. To generally say "you will never have filter bypass if the oil pump in not in relief" does not always hold true 100% of the time.

Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
That is, why would an 8 psid bypass valve be any more prone to opening ..if you never hit 5psid? It's baseless to form conclusions on that basis alone.


True, if indeed the filter's PSID is never over 5 psi, and the bypass setting is 8 psi, then (of course) it would theoretically never go into bypass mode. But, how about those cases were the combo of RPM, high pump volume, oil viscosity and filter flow restriction and low bypass setting is such that the filter PSID is over 8 psi before the oil pump makes it to relief mode? Yes, the filter could be certainly be in bypass if the conditions are right. I've never argued or claimed anything different.

Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
But if you're a "hard driver" with a true high volume setup ..and live more in the upper end of your output range ..far more than in the startup cold scenarios ..then you can really focus on these events as they're constructed.


See above.

Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
However you'll see more such events every cold start than you ever will in "fast & furious"
grin2.gif



Yes, more cold start bypass events on the "normal populous of vehicles" of cars (mainly during extreme cold months) ... but also a very real concern for the "fast & furious" crowd ... even with hot oil. That's what I'm talking about ... NOT the grandpas cruising down the interstate at 45 mph.
LOL.gif
 
Quote:
Yes, more cold start bypass events on the "normal populous of vehicles" of cars (mainly during extreme cold months) ... but also a very real concern for the "fast & furious" crowd ... even with hot oil. That's what I'm talking about ... NOT the grandpas cruising down the interstate at 45 mph.
LOL.gif



I really think not. I really don't think anyone operating any number of high performance high volume engines really runs out of filter very often at high output. I mean ..they "can" ..but..

Even if you're hammering it like one would in "Fast & Furious". You would have to be driving like that all the time and never experience warm up to outpace cold situations. It can take longer for some Euro-alloy to get below relief levels than it does domestic iron. Some Euro engines spend the lion's share in warm up from the oil's perspective.

Track ..street racing for recreation, long stretches in some state that can manage long stretches for hours on end @ the upper end of the rpm range ...sure.

Otherwise you're focusing on the last 500 rpm (or whatever) that you're sustaining ..for what ..a few seconds ..maybe a minute in total over a "run"?? Meanwhile ..on the way to the imaginary track ..the pump is in relief and you're at elevated PSID until all of the volume offered can fit through the engine at sublight speeds.
 
Originally Posted By: chevrofreak
I've got to say, after all the talk about the Amsoil Ea being the best filter you can buy, those particle counts disappoint me.
Not me. My car has the Mobil 1 EP filter. Glad to see my decision to avoid Amsoil and K&N worked out.
 
Regarding the Amsoil EAO oil filters: The company admits that they made a filtration change from the finer filtration filter media to the EAO ones that lets more particulates thru. Thus allowing the filters to be used for an extended period. The older finer media Amsoil filters did a better job of keeping the oil clean. I still change my Amsoil once a year and oil filters every 6 months. Oh well. I will look into the Mobil M1-209 as a replacement for the EAO-34 Amsoil.
 
What was the old Amsoil and are there any tests of its performance?
Originally Posted By: Mamala Bay
Well the question is why does M1 filter better than the Amsoil EaO filters. Is it the media in the filter? The design of the filter?
Maybe it's because the Mobil Extended filter is a synthetic blend of both natural and synthetic fibers..... similar to how some people claim a blend oil is better than a synthetic. (As for cost, in my experience all MLM products cost more due to low-volume + the dealer's built-in profit.)
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top