99 Jeep 4.0 114k, MC5w-20, 2k, Auto-Rx rinse

[gtx510]

Could the clunking be coming from the steering stabilizer?
ES has their greaseable swaybar bushings (and urethane tierod end and balljoint boots) so regular grease shouldn't hurt urethane. Should be fine with rubber too?


Going to a thicker engine oil? xW40?

 

[Gary Allan]

The stabalizer is new last year and the swaybar links are new this year (very expensive as swaybar links go due to the ball and socket construction). The rest of the front end is solid, including the ball joints and rotating assemblies.


I will go back to thicker oil after I play around with this 5w-20 for a bit longer.

 

[gtx510]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Gary Allan:
Thursday I'm replacing the trackbar due to a loose bushing. Perfect opportunity to change the oil.

---

Do replace the entire bar if you don't have to.
www.suspension.com/jeep.htm ES p/n 2.7102 $7.00
Quadratec has good prices too.

 

[Gary Allan]

Maybe next time. I was informed that you couldn't get the bushing separately ..even aftermarket.

I didn't bother researching it. I guess I'll replace it in the one I take off. I've also discovered that, although offered in abundance, many aftermarket parts are great for hard core types that are breaking stuff all the time, but they don't last in terms of long term usage like mine. That is, they'll take lots of abuse in terms of torque and whatnot, but aren't going to last 6 years or more like an OEM unit will. Most fellow jeepers that I know only have a little more lift then I have, but they've already gone through a couple of sets of heim joints on their expensive adjustable control arms with just normal daily driving.

Truthfully, I can't find fault in the trackbar with any "test". It's just the last thing left with a wobble at speed (sometimes) and a slight "clunk" (again, just at times) when the load shifts. You hear it from the location of the bushing. Everything else checks out fine. This is just what everyone suggested is the cause.

 

[427Z06]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Gary Allan:
I will go back to thicker oil after I play around with this 5w-20 for a bit longer.

---

Judas!

 

[Gary Allan]

(as Muadib said in his challenge with Feyd-Rautha "I shall bend like a reed in the wind")

Well, actually ..if I find no reason to go heavy again ..5w-20 it will be

 

[Rubiconjeeper]

Quote:

---

M1 in a 30 weight sucks in this engine. At least it did when I used it. That T&SUV label hasn't shown any distinction in UOA's for other users in their engines over regular M1. Not an option for me, imo. They may have tweaked a few things here and there ..but it doesn't stand out with anything BOLD in differences ...so I'll still consider it to suck in this engine

---

Ok, Gary in your opinion, on which oil do these engines run better? I'm using M1 EP 5W-30. Brand new Rubicon.

 

[Gary Allan]

Rubi - you caught me shooting from the hip

You can run your M1 5w-30 without fear. Any lubrication related issue with the 4.0 will take a decade to show itself. I've already used the 0w-30 and 5w-30 and not contained the (normal) higher Fe shedding that this engine is known for. D1 5w-40 reduced my Fe dandruff to a reasonable level. However, on another engine (my 2.5) I used another HDEO 5w-40 and the Fe was quite high. Others have also gotten excellent Fe numbers with newer dino 10w-30 oils. This suggests that viscosity didn't save me with the use of D1 and perhaps some part of the additive package contained the metals. I only know that M1, in the 30 weights that I used, didn't manage this well. It's also been suggested that part of M1's chemistry results in higher Fe readings in some engines. The amount may vary a bit ..but it appears to have some seating effect that likes to sacrifice some Fe in the process.

I've never used the EP formula ..so I don't have an opinion on it.

 

[Gary Allan]

Quote:

---

Gary: Scotty, I need more 5w20.

Scotty: Gary, we can't do it. If we keep with this viscosity, we'll blow up any minute now.

---

Ima w8tn for ittah blow, capn

Let's see if we can cipher what a penny's worth of wear is. A penny is about .75" and about .06 thick. It's near enough to the footprint of a lifter/lobe for demonstration purposes. I believe it weighs around 3 grams.

Let's see what levels of total metals would show up if we lost .005" off of 12 lobes/lifters (between the two of them= 12 assemblies @ .005 each= .06).

here's the oil
8.3 x .87 = 7.221 lbs/gal-oil
7.221/2.2 = 3.28 Kg/gal-oil = 3282 grams/gal-oil
1.5 x 3282 grams = 4923 gram
So the ppm would be:

3/4923 x 1,000,000 = 609 ppm

(did I miss anything

)


That would, naturally assume that all the metals came from the lifters/cam.

 

[HardbodyLoyalist]

Now you ought to know better than to bring something like this up on BITOG.


If an engine holds 4 quarts and a quart is 946 mL, then that's 3784 mL of oil.

ppm is micrograms of solute per milliliter of solvent.

Therefore, 3 grams of copper would give

3,000,000 micrograms of Cu / 3784 mL oil = 793 ppm.

Of course, if your sump holds 5 quarts, then it's 634 ppm.

If it holds 6 quarts, then it's 529 ppm.

There's also something else to consider: pre-1982 pennies weighed about 3 grams and contained 95% copper. They would therefore contain about 2.9 g of Cu.

Post-1982 pennies only weigh about 2.5 g and contain only 2.6% Cu. Therefore, a modern penny contains only 0.07 g of Cu.

That 4 qt sump would now only contain about 18 ppm Cu.

 

[Gary Allan]

Who said anything about Cu being the metal? None of my notations, IIRC, say any ppm Cu. Any copper cams and lifters that you know of

Quote:

---

Let's see if we can cipher what a penny's worth of wear is.

---

The penny was used for close surface area to a lifter (.840 for SBC) ..the weight was just a ballpark (3 for easy figuring).


..but I'll not argue with your other figures ..they only confirm that it takes a whole lot of wear metals to account for very little wear.

 

[HardbodyLoyalist]

Ahhhh.

Makes a LOT more sense now.

But, for anyone considering dissolving a penny and pouring it into their engine, my calculations still stand.

 

[Gary Allan]

I'll buy that

 

[Gary Allan]

Hmm...we're getting a backdoor enlightenment to wear markers here, me thinks

 

[427Z06]

So what's the surface area of the iron cylinder bores, 249 in^2? So .000018" (.44µ) off the cylinder walls produce 88 ppm in 6 quarts of oil?