98 Volvo V70 T5: Rethinking Oil Selection

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Originally Posted By: sleddriver
Originally Posted By: JOD
I had a oil temp and pressure gauge on what was basically the same engine. I regularly saw oil temps of >100C in regular driving.
I'd be interested in seeing some specific numbers, if you'd care to share. Also what make & yr of Volvo was this? NA or T?
Sure. I had 2 white blocks and a redblock, but the car with the full gauges was a 98 V70R. It's a nearly identical engine to yours, just some minor differences which shouldn't affect oil temps. Just driving around town, oil temps were in the 85-90C range. Extended highway temps, 90-95C @ 60-65mph, 95ish, 75-80mph 100-105. Driving up an extended mountain pass @ 75mph in 3rd gear, temps would hit 105-109. I used a non A3-rated oil once, (who's brand I won't reveal less I get labeled a hater! It was a 5W30 syn) and it was too thin at the end of a 8K OCI. Going up Mt. Hood @ 75mph, I had the idiot oil pressure light come one, and was around 20-25psi @ 4K rpms. After that, I went back to using an A3 rated oil only. These temps were "summer", but that's only 70-80 degrees. The Mt. Hood oil pressure incident was in very warm ambient temps, probably 90+. Oil temps weren't much different in the dead of winter, even when I drove over to the cold side of the state, probably 5C less, max--though it took a little longer to warm up. I had a belly pan on the car, so that may be a factor in the winter temps. Anyway, hope that helps. As I said earlier, if I still had my R I think I'd seriously consider using the G-oil 5W30. It seems as though it would be a good fit for this car. One issue with the thick oil is that oil pressure at the turbo seals is astronomical until the oil is fully warmed up (which is why they often need to be replaced if you get on the car until it's really warmed up). They're easy to replace on the T5, not so easy on the R as you need to drop the drive shaft.
 
Thanks for sharing. Re: instrumentation, was it OEM or did you install it? There doesn't seem to be any room on my cluster for additional gauges. I drove extensively up in your area in the early 90's on my grand road trip, but was in the SAAB 900T at that time. Drove up to the top of Mt. Hood to take in the view. The T really came in handy there. What's G-oil? I keep my foot out of the throttle until the coolant needle is at 3 o'clock. Even then it's rare, but it sure is nice to have that card in your back pocket in a pinch. Re: the driveshaft on the R: are they AWD? I thought the R & the T5 were the same car mechanically?
 
JOD, nice report and I see no reason for not mentioning the brand of the 5W-30 oil that apparently sheared quite a bit. I presume this was quite a few years ago so it may not apply to todays current formulation. (If you don't mind PM me.) sleddriver, G-Oil 5W-30 is an Anerican made, beef-tallow derived bio oil that's quite heavy will a HTHSV of 3.5cP. So you could consider it an A3/B4 oil. Walmart carries it.
 
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
sleddriver, G-Oil 5W-30 is an Anerican made, beef-tallow derived bio oil that's quite heavy will a HTHSV of 3.5cP. So you could consider it an A3/B4 oil. Walmart carries it.
HOLY COW!
 
Originally Posted By: sleddriver
Thanks for sharing. Re: instrumentation, was it OEM or did you install it? There doesn't seem to be any room on my cluster for additional gauges.
I installed them. I removed the horrible stock radio with the constantly jamming 3 disc player, and replaced it with a singe-din setup. Then I used the empty slot for a 3 gauge cluster using a 3 gauge single-din faceplate (you can get those anywhere, or make your own out of some ABS). I had the trio of VDO mechanical gauges measuring oil temp, pressure and boost.
Originally Posted By: sleddriver
Re: the driveshaft on the R: are they AWD? I thought the R & the T5 were the same car mechanically?
I think there was a Euro R we didn't see that was FWD, but all of the US R's are AWD. Besides that, there's very similar to the T5. It's a 16T turbo versus the 15T in yours, the intake is slightly different and exhaust header is a little different on the R, and some minor ECU differences. I think stock they make about 10 more HP.
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
JOD, nice report and I see no reason for not mentioning the brand of the 5W-30 oil that apparently sheared quite a bit. I presume this was quite a few years ago so it may not apply to todays current formulation. (If you don't mind PM me.)
I'm afraid of the M1 posse! Seriously though, is was M1 5W30. This was about 5 years ago, so definitely a different formulation than what's available today. What's odd is that OP dropped quickly, like within the first 500 miles, then stabilized. Then, about 5-6K into the OCI, it dropped again, almost like it started shearing again. I remember this because I thought my oil pump was on the way out! I babied the car back home from Mt. Hood and changed the oil. After going back to GC, which is what I normally used, no more OP problems. The guy at the local Volvo shop who told me to use an A3-rated oil in the big turbos basically said "I told you so".
 
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It's not unusual for shear prone oils to shear quickly and then stabilize. The second episode of viscosity loss sounds a lot like fuel dilution although unusually high oil temp's could have done it. In any event your experience shows the advantage of having oil gauges on board.
 
Good info. Thanks to all for chiming in. Obviously, I'm behind in oil tech. That's why Hass' article was such a revelation. I might add that when I called XOM, asking very basic questions, they were very rude & arrogant over the phone. Then again, perhaps that's the education level of the idiot on the other end? Wow..what a moron. Grown a little arrogant sitting at the top of the ladder? Perhaps it's time to buy someone else's syn. Thank God for BITOG!
 
Ok. Sorry if I am not following but what should I put in my 99 s70 t5 w/ 150k and running strong ? I am hoping to install new fire trap this weekend, maybe next.
 
Originally Posted By: MZ-Bird
Ok. Sorry if I am not following but what should I put in my 99 s70 t5 w/ 150k and running strong ? I am hoping to install new fire trap this weekend, maybe next.
Thats the third time I've seen the term "fire trap" used in reference to a Volvo. I've never heard of this before, what is it?
 
To the OP: I'm missing the point, obviously. Sir, your car has 182K miles, seems to run good on a diet of 15W-40 or 20W-50 and "doesn't burn a drop of oil". Whatever you have done in the past re: oil & filter changes seems to have been working... And working very well. What would you change, and why? Or, WHY would you change, and to WHAT? It ain't broke... Cheers! p.s. If you went with a 0W-05 oil, a bypass filtration system three levels of oil coolers and your engine grenaded, what would you have gained, except the undying gratitude of a mechanic, or two?
 
I'd suggest you read Haas' article, if you haven't. He says it better than I ever could. His points are well taken, thus the choice of the M1 0w-30. Why? It's not as thick on start-up and it meets the ECII rating, which the thicker oils didn't.
 
Changes I've noticed so far: 1. Cold idle now at 1000 rpm vs 800 on thicker oil. 2. Ave. city driving mpg now ~ 22 vs. 20 before (after ~ 5 tanks according to on-board mpg gauge). 3. No difference in "feel" or sound or smoothness noted (at least nothing compared to replacing an old, shrunk, hard-as-a-rock urethane upper torque mount with an OEM one. HUGE DIFFERENCE there in quietness, smoothness, no-shake-with-your-foot-on-the-brake, no dash rattling, no buzzing, etc. No more urethane for me.)
 
I must respectfully point out that the idle speed is more than likely computer controlled and no oil selection will change it. But bravo to the mpg increase! And as an owner of many vehicles I can tell you that no one makes as quiet and smooth of a motor mount as the OEM's! No more urethane mounts here either.
 
I had a 98 Volvo S7 GLT (turbo also but not as much power as yours stock), the previous owner used royal purple 10w30 and when I got it switched to Rotella T6 5w40, the car still loved it and ran buttery smooth, recommend you try rotella!
 
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
I must respectfully point out that the idle speed is more than likely computer controlled and no oil selection will change it.
That's what I thought as well. It used to hit 1000rpm on rare occasions, mainly after a night in the low 40's. As I have no info on oil flow or pressure or temp, it's just a guess. It does occur on a regular basis however. We'll see what happens when the heat season arrives. It does settle at 850rpm once warmed up.
 
UPDATE: I've now accrued 4,811 mi on the M1 0W-30. I haven't noticed a significant change in mpg. I have noticed a significant change in oil consumption however. From none with the Rotella T6 (15W-40) to a quart+ so far. In addition, there also seems to be more blow-by as the oil is quite a bit darker at this stage than the T6, even when the later had been in there for 10,000mi. I remember JOD thinking the 0W-30 was too thin, but I'd already bought & installed it. Astro14 sent the Volvo 'clean-up' note recommending syn. Decisions. . . decisions. Plenty hot in Central Tx during the Summer, no doubt. Don't have much of a Winter here (unfortunately as it would be a welcome change-of-pace). I'm pretty easy on the sled: Don't drive her like I stole her. Only put my foot down when necessary and never unless she's very warmed up. Not much high-speed HWY driving either, though 75mph is now the new limit on Austin toll-roads. I'm due for an oil filter change so I began looking at oils again, comparing VI, HTHS, ACEA etc. Interesting the differences between M1 10W-30 and their 10W-30HM. I'd decided on M1 10w-30HM, but the closest WM was out of it. (WM has 5qrt jugs of both M1 & PP for $25. Very attractive compared to $6.50 - $9.35/qrt at other stores. In addition they carry the Purolator oil filter the sled uses). Their 5W-30 is ACEA A1/B1 & A5/B5, meets the Honda turbo spec (HTO-06), yet HTHS @ 150°is 3.1cp? Found that odd. Perhaps it shows my ignorance. I wasn't tracking VI or NOACK at the time either, thus didn't note it. Also looked at PP & PU specs. WM only stocks the former. PP 5W-30 does meet HTO-06, but HTHS @ 150°C is only 3. (then again, 300°C is 302°F, that's really hot. I'll never see those temps, even in Tx, the way I drive), A1/B1, VI is 177 and NOACK is 12.8. So what exactly does this mean? (This would be a great place for a table with this info but I don't know how to do that). I came home with a 5qrt jug of M1 5W-30HM (HTHS @ 150°C = 3.3, A1/B1 & A5/B5, VI=165, Viscosity @ 100°C = 11.7 cSt, no NOACK listed) but I haven't opened it yet. Didn't see any G-oil while at WM. I need some help with VI & NOACK in the overall grand scheme of things. In summary, it looks like the sled likes a bit thicker oil in this stage of her life. Less blow-by, the oil stays cleaner, mpg delta not noticeable, compression may increase with a thicker oil though. So I don't need a 50, nor even a 40, but I do need a thick 30. What say you all?
 
HTO-06 is a deposit specific specification only. It does not speak to viscosity suitability in other makes. The HTHS test is done at 150C as it is a simulation of the oils behavior in your bearings. The oil temperature in the bearings runs higher than the bulk temperature. Shannow has posted data that shows 40-45C higher. Ed
 
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