91 Toronado

[emmett442]

Originally Posted by CNT
Quote
Photos of this beast of a car are mandatory.

Big fan of these older GM fwd luxo coupes. I've owned many of 1988-1991 Eldorados. Nearly identical chassis, different car.

I had good luck with the 4T60 behind the Cadillac V8s. Should be just fine behind a 3800.

Enjoy it. Unlike pickups, sports cars, economy cars, SUVs, etc, these 2 door cruisers are a type of car that will likely never be produced again, unfortunately. I miss them already! Nowadays, 2 door means sports car only. Even the "luxury" modern 2 doors are nearly sports cars. They're cramped and ride rough, but look flashy and go fast.

These older coupes were nicely balanced in their characteristics.

 

[pitzel]

Originally Posted by WylieCoyote
She's a beauty, considering her age. I've seen a hundred of these cars up close in my lifetime, from when I detailed cars, and then worked in the parts department of an Olds dealership in the early 90s. Drove many of them as demos. I'll never be able to look at one without thinking of the day I saw a the oil pan blow off of one after the techs tried for an hour to get it started after a -20 degree night. Fun memory.

That 3800 is a smooth operator. Enjoy the drive (and the projects that will ensue)!


[censored]??? Did it have 10W-30 (or worse) in it or something? How does an oil pan just 'blow off'?

 

[chemman]

Before you drop your AT pan to do the filter change, order an AT oil pan with a drain plug. It will make future fluid changes much easier.

 

[WylieCoyote]

Originally Posted by pitzel
Originally Posted by WylieCoyote
She's a beauty, considering her age. I've seen a hundred of these cars up close in my lifetime, from when I detailed cars, and then worked in the parts department of an Olds dealership in the early 90s. Drove many of them as demos. I'll never be able to look at one without thinking of the day I saw a the oil pan blow off of one after the techs tried for an hour to get it started after a -20 degree night. Fun memory.

That 3800 is a smooth operator. Enjoy the drive (and the projects that will ensue)!


[censored]??? Did it have 10W-30 (or worse) in it or something? How does an oil pan just 'blow off'?


The engine flooded itself while attempting to start in the very cold temps, and owner continued cranking until the battery got weak, and had it towed to us. The techs brought it inside (it was still bitterly cold outside) to warm it up and charge the battery. Then they cranked on it for a while, not realizing that the spark plugs were soaking wet with gas. The last time they attempted cranking, so much fuel had accumulated in the oil pan, the fumes found an ignition source from one cylinder that finally fired, and the pan exploded off the crankcase.

Apparently there was no 'clear flood' programming in these ECUs. It was quite a scene.

 

[John_Conrad]

Originally Posted by CNT
Originally Posted by John_Conrad
as for the transmission, to do a complete flush

i use a hand pump to remove as much old fluid from above, i then raise vehicle drop pan(much lighter as fluid has been removed), change filter, reattch pan, and add the appropriate transmission fluid back in.

I then disconnect the return line coming from radiator or tranny cooler at the transmission and place a pan under it, have assistant run vehicle while you are watching this drain, when you notice the dirty fluid coming from this line turn to clean , then immediatle shut engine off.

replace all fluid accordingly..

So, in other words, you're saying...

1) take off the pan and replace the filter
2) clean the pan
3) put back the pan
4) pour in ~2 quart transmission fluid
5) then disconnect the line
6) run the engine until clean fluid comes out
*X*X* that would mean draining ~11 quarts *X*X*
*X*X* by that time, the whole transmission would be without fluid (that would be called DRY) *X*X*
7) stop the engine
8) pour in (at least) 2 gal of transmission fluid (at once?)
9) start the engine and check the dipstick

Is that what you're saying? I just want to make sure I understand.

you will likely drain about 5-6 quarts initially from the pan, u will replace this after u put new filter and pan back. this new clean fluid will force the old fluid out of the torque converter through the line u disconnected and this should only be a few quarts maybe 2 to 3. do not drain all the fluid back out.

if u are unsure how to do this, then do just several drain and fills without the line disconnect. this will eventually replace most of the old fluid out.

 

[spk2000]

Great cars. I had an 88 Trofeo and wish I had kept it going longer. Very fun to drive spirited yet rode like a luxury car on highway. Transmission issues forced me to get rid of it.

I believe the Trofeo had the 3800 engine and the non Trofeo's had the 3.8 standard. Both were great reliable motors.

That transmission fluid looks pretty rough. I would get it out of it before driving like you are planning. Some people like to fog the engine when they have sat for a while to ensure pistons are free and not rusted to sidewall. I have never done but think you can remove plugs and shoot it in.

 

[CNT]

Quote
you will likely drain about 5-6 quarts initially from the pan, u will replace this after u put new filter and pan back. this new clean fluid will force the old fluid out of the torque converter through the line u disconnected and this should only be a few quarts maybe 2 to 3. do not drain all the fluid back out.

I see.

This is why I am asking questions in here... new question, what is the capacity of THM440T4 (including cooling system)?

Quote
edit: *highly* recommend you track down the proper factory service manual for the car.

I did tried looking for a car manual on ebay, and elsewhere... I don't remember but there was something far off, like falsified.

If you're referring to a REPAIR MANUAL (for this year specified), I got that from the public library (took about 40 cellphone snapshots of data and guides).

I am interested in obtaining a "original" car manual, where the last pages have all those specs, capacity, part numbers, all that. I could try using VIN if able.

 

[emmett442]

Originally Posted by WylieCoyote
Originally Posted by pitzel
Originally Posted by WylieCoyote
She's a beauty, considering her age. I've seen a hundred of these cars up close in my lifetime, from when I detailed cars, and then worked in the parts department of an Olds dealership in the early 90s. Drove many of them as demos. I'll never be able to look at one without thinking of the day I saw a the oil pan blow off of one after the techs tried for an hour to get it started after a -20 degree night. Fun memory.

That 3800 is a smooth operator. Enjoy the drive (and the projects that will ensue)!


[censored]??? Did it have 10W-30 (or worse) in it or something? How does an oil pan just 'blow off'?


The engine flooded itself while attempting to start in the very cold temps, and owner continued cranking until the battery got weak, and had it towed to us. The techs brought it inside (it was still bitterly cold outside) to warm it up and charge the battery. Then they cranked on it for a while, not realizing that the spark plugs were soaking wet with gas. The last time they attempted cranking, so much fuel had accumulated in the oil pan, the fumes found an ignition source from one cylinder that finally fired, and the pan exploded off the crankcase.

Apparently there was no 'clear flood' programming in these ECUs. It was quite a scene.

Leaking fuel pressure regulators were a common scene on this older GM stuff....

 

[pitzel]

Originally Posted by CNT

I did tried looking for a car manual on ebay, and elsewhere... I don't remember but there was something far off, like falsified.

If you're referring to a REPAIR MANUAL (for this year specified), I got that from the public library (took about 40 cellphone snapshots of data and guides).

I am interested in obtaining a "original" car manual, where the last pages have all those specs, capacity, part numbers, all that. I could try using VIN if able.


Don't know if this is allowed....

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1991-Oldsmobile-Toronado-Trofeo-Service-Manual/192244434293

Get that, should be about 2 inches thick.

Or better yet: https://www.ebay.com/itm/1991-Toron...dsmobile-Service-Supplement/143365141748
edit: Hmmm, apparently the Toronado is an "E-body". Learn something new every day...

 

[CNT]

Originally Posted by spk2000
I believe the Trofeo had the 3800 engine and the non Trofeo's had the 3.8 standard. Both were great reliable motors.

They differ? Interesting that you mention that... while I watched hours of YouTube on 3.8 engines, those have alternator in back side of the engine (right by the firewall). When I looked at my engine, the alternator is near to the front (close to radiator). I wonder what's up with that, but now that you mention they differ, I see.

Quote
think you can remove plugs and shoot it in.

That's what I planned to do with MMO, spray that in the spark plug holes, then manual crack it (if I could, I haven't even touched the car in this cold weather yet).

 

[aquariuscsm]

I had a Haynes shop manual that covered all the GM 3800 cars from maybe 86-91?

The Trofeo was FAST!! Mine was also all digital and push button. And rode like the smoothest quietest luxury car ever. I too miss these GM 3800 luxury coupes. An automotive era that can never be repeated.

 

[caprice_2nv]

I saw one of these drive by me today, that same color but gray trim along the bottom. It looked in decent shape but not as nice as this one.

 

[CNT]

My car... I can say that!? MY CAR is a TORONADO !

The car body is real good, yet I did notice some little dents and scraps, and paint has some scratches and little fad. But, first, I am going to see the important mechanical is working right, no leaks, etc. I even bought four (Tiger Paws) tires already (only $200 for all four, brand new, I just have to install 'em anytime soon), since all tires is leaking (along with the rim edge). I haven't even sat inside yet! The seats are powered, and a dead battery. I noticed one thing bad... the ceiling. All ceiling is smooth, but the one spot right above the driver seat, right by the visor, has some "drawings" and pokes. The ceiling is dry, so the "sponge" just collapse and not spring back. Wonder what to do with that?

 

[CNT]

I came across a capacities page of service manual, for this year/model transmission, it says 12 pts. So, that means 6 quarts of transmission fluid. Does this mean for the whole system (pan, filter, torque converter, lines, radiator)?

If doing just a pan drop and filter replacement, how much fluid is drained out?
If doing a transmission fluid flush, I just need at least 7 qts ready?

 

[pitzel]

Originally Posted by CNT
I came across a capacities page of service manual, for this year/model transmission, it says 12 pts. So, that means 6 quarts of transmission fluid. Does this mean for the whole system (pan, filter, torque converter, lines, radiator)?

If doing just a pan drop and filter replacement, how much fluid is drained out?
If doing a transmission fluid flush, I just need at least 7 qts ready?


4T60 (in the LH0 or LQ1 applications, but the 3800 V6 should be nearly identical!):

Drain and Refill = 5.7L (6 Quarts) (ie: pan drop)
Overhaul = 7.6L (8 Quarts)

 

[CNT]

Originally Posted by pitzel
4T60 (in the LH0 or LQ1 applications, but the 3800 V6 should be nearly identical!):

Drain and Refill = 5.7L (6 Quarts) (ie: pan drop)
Overhaul = 7.6L (8 Quarts)

Thanks for reply.

 

[caprice_2nv]

We normally put about 12 quarts through for a flush on most transmissions. Using the cooler lines for a fluid exchange.

 

[CNT]

Originally Posted by caprice_2nv
We normally put about 12 quarts through for a flush on most transmissions. Using the cooler lines for a fluid exchange.

OK. I will buy 3 gal.

 

[CNT]

Finally, found the original car manual! It was under the driver' seat. I was looking for another relay box, other than the one under the hood by the engine, still couldn't find it. I need to find the fuel pump relay, nothing yet? Even the manual doesn't tell it, only the one by the engine. But, now, I got what I was looking for... part #s.

Anyways, the manual says to use AC Delco R44LTS6. I am ordering R45LTS6. Correct me... isn't the difference is one is little hotter? Both gap are .060 I am not to tech knowledge with plugs, but I like to keep copper (best heat spark), even if I have to change it 40K or whatever.

Same thing with:

(owners manual) vs (ordering)
GF-481 vs GF-561 (fuel filter)
PF47 vs PF-47E (oil filter)
A-974C vs A-1615C (air filter)
Dexron II vs Dexon VI (ATF) huh? The ATF pan/filter drop is 6.5qts. Flush is 11qts.

It was NICE DAY today, I got the fuel line disconnected, ready to drain, but couldn't find the fuel pump relay!

 

[CNT]

Originally Posted by CNT
I need to find the fuel pump relay

Found it. It's behind the glovebox.

Seems I am replying to myself?