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There are a bunch of 90W gear oils, in both heavy machinery and boats...
75W-90 GL-4 (brass synchros) Fluid Options
- Thread starter badtlc
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MolaKule
Staff member
Farnsworth said:
"This is another fluid that is not formulated as an application specific manual transmission fluids [MTF] for cars and light trucks."
What page of your Toyota's truck owner's manual does it say that your manual transmission requires MT-1 Fluid?
Chevron said:
I don't see any specific references in the Chevron literature as being suitable for Toyota Manual Transmissions. If you can point this out it would be helpful.
This is an excellent EP Differential/Axle Lube made from majority Group III and if I had a large HD truck shop I'd purchase a 55 gallon drum.
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There are no cheap fluids and there are expensive transmissions. But, I would definitely rinse the rust/water/sand/rodentpeepoop out of a salvage yard transmission, and replace the axle seals or front/rear seals too...
.
Even the conventional GL4 from Driven, BradPenn, Stalube, if you can find it, is $15 a quart. So, $20 for Redline/Amsoil isn't much of a difference for the typical 2-3 quart manual capacity.
The Pennzoil GL4 is all but impossible to find. Think I saw it once on a shelf 20 years ago.
For a 50 mile rinse, I would just use any marine GL4 or non-LS GL5 gear oil. If it were my transmission, I would rinse it with Redline since that is the additive package I want in the transmission, and not any previous generic fluids. BTW, I've flushed with 10w40 and 20w50 conventional motorcycle oils(hint hint), non-LS GL5 gear oils, and even HDEO 15w40 too. So, I'd grab a jug of supertech 15w40, fill that transmission, drive it for 50 miles and then drain it out for Redline. Make sure you use a clean drain pan and inspect for rust/metal/sand.... If there is any, I would repeat with motoroil or generic gear oil, or might just be best to return the transmission if you're not capable of replacing all the bearings/synchros yourself.
And, always state the year/make/model/...that you're working on.
I would not use ANY LS GL5 gear oil, 40-50 grade motor oils, or OTR MT1 trucker gear oil, in a passenger vehicle transmission that has GL4 as a recommendation. I would not want any GL5 LS additives either. I don't care if the automaker says GL4 or GL5 or if the gear oil blender say GL4 and GL5. Gear oil manufacturers and automakers make some bad recommendations.
MolaKule
Staff member
Both the Pennzoil Synchromesh and the Valvoline synchromesh are on all of the store shelves in my area.
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The 75w90 as in the "thread title"
And, never saw a GL-4 rating on the Pennzoil Synchromesh bottle and definitely not on their datasheet. And, the Valvoline isn't a 75w90.
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MolaKule
Staff member
Valvoline does make a 75W90 for synchronized transmissions, but in some areas it may not be available.
The Pennzoil synchromesh of about 9.4 cSt@100C IS a GL-4 specific MTF because of its analysis signature.
Post #13 has a list of 75W90's that potentially could be used for any 75W90 MTF requirement.
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I don't care about analysis signature since Pennzoil Synchromesh not rated by the manufacturer as GL-4 or as a 75w90.
I didn't say Pennzoil or Valvoline didn't make a 75w90 GL4. I haven't seen the Pennzoil 75w90 GL4 on the shelf in 20 years. And around here, the Valvoline 75w90 GL4 was VIOC only bulk for the longest time. Never saw the 75w90 Professional Valvoline GL4 in ANY store on the shelf.
The Amsoil MTG and Redline MT90 aren't vaporware are easiest to source for most that have a shipping address.
I didn't say Pennzoil or Valvoline didn't make a 75w90 GL4. I haven't seen the Pennzoil 75w90 GL4 on the shelf in 20 years. And around here, the Valvoline 75w90 GL4 was VIOC only bulk for the longest time. Never saw the 75w90 Professional Valvoline GL4 in ANY store on the shelf.
The Amsoil MTG and Redline MT90 aren't vaporware are easiest to source for most that have a shipping address.
MolaKule
Staff member
I never stated Pennzoil Synchromesh had a 75W90 viscosity in fact I stated it had a 9.4 cSt viscosity. (It's now stated as 9.08 cSt @100C since they went to a GTL base).
Please tell us what a GL-4 rating constitutes and what is in the DI additive package that requires it to meet a GL-4 rating.
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https://www.chevronlubricants.com/en_us/home/chevron-products-selector.html?src-tab=productsselector
Go to autos, Toyota, 1996, T100, 2.7, manual trans, there it is XDM 75w-90. The MT 1 means nothing to me. It says GL 4 which my manual also says. Exceeds GL4 actually it says. Mazda b2600, same thing. For my purposes this is all I want to know about oil, if it matches the manual, plus made by Chevron.
The thing here I was only providing an answer to a question based on my experience in finding a suitable oil at a really good price for “synthetic.” Only trying to help the OP.
On Delo ESI I saw this which states uses an inorganic borate film that does not react with metal. This is 80w-90 though. I don’t know what that borate film is but same thing, I need only to know the qualifications.
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MolaKule
Staff member
I did not find a 1996 category for anything Toyota.
I asked where in the Toyota manual does it state that your MT requires an MT-1 rated fluid, because you stated:
Farnsworth said:
The borate component is a Potassium Borate ester compound made by Oronite (OLOA® 9750), the additive arm of Chevron.
I will ask you the same question:
Please tell us what constitutes a GL-4 rating and what is in the DI additive package that requires it to meet a GL-4 rating.
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Don’t know what constitutes a GL4 rating, etc. since you know why don’t you answer your question?
I can see the concern because of bronze metals. I have no real interest in going past my owners manual and what is on the oil information. I did see Chevron said the ESI oil is unique and the borate compound precludes use of sulfur compounds. But GL4 is ok according to Toyota so apparently it doesn’t have enough sulfur/phosphorous ep to damage the synchronizers. Nothing said on XDM.
As for MT-1 it doesn’t matter if it’s on the bottle if it also states exceeds GL4. I was merely stating all what is on the bottle. MT-1 isn’t in the owner manual and I never said it was. Why would I when it’s not?
Toyota is on the search, and my exact vehicle. Auto/truck and go from there. Toyota, T100, 2.7, 1996. Product selector. XDM 75w-90 is recommended.
Here is a photo of my owners manual. It says GL5 too I didn’t even remember that. So for me I am good to go with almost anything on the shelf. Not a fussy car. But the op wanted GL4, and that’s why I unfortunately have spent a couple hours trying to help him when I could have been doing something else. I learned more about gear oil though, thanks. I guess you already posted my owners manual, but anyway this proves I did see it.
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"The borate component is a Potassium Borate ester compound made by Oronite (OLOA® 9750), the additive arm of Chevron."
FYI is not a ester but dispersed K Borate with a little SP the orignal version has some scuffing issues.
FYI is not a ester but dispersed K Borate with a little SP the orignal version has some scuffing issues.
MolaKule
Staff member
Okay, you seem to have attached some special meaning to MT-1 so I thought you thought knew what an MT-1 spec meant and that your transmission needed an MT-1 rated oil, which it doesn't.
There is still no indication that the XDM oil contains friction modifiers for synchronized auto and light truck Manual transmissions.
I tried that and had to remove it. It was too thick in the winter to shift gears and probably would be for him in KC. He wants 75w-90 which would make a big difference, it did for me. I used a Coastal product several years ago but I don't see it around anymore. It was actually recommended by someone at Pennzoil for me.
MolaKule
Staff member
I stated it was a compound.
I don't know where you got this SP info but the OLOA 9750 typical properties sheet says differently.
It contains:
8.33 mass/wt-% of Potassium Borate in suspension,
0.22 mass/wt-% of Nitrogen,
0.14 mass/weight-% of Calcium,
TBN in terms of mg KOH/g is 127.
The dispersant is an ester, the main carrier is a C15-C50 highly refined mineral oil.
Viscoity@100C is 16, viscosity at 4C is 86.
it is used most generally as a secondary (cold temp) Extreme Pressure Anti-Wear additive, often in combination with an amine phosphate and sulfurized olefin as the primary EP additive.
Just to update this. I checked all my local stores including WalMart, Oreilly, Autozone, AAP, Napa, Carquest and another that was local store and the only 75W-90 GL-4 fluid I could find was the MasterPro at Oreilly for $12/qt. It is technically a GL-5 fluid that is safe for manual transmissions requiring GL-4. It doesn't specifically say it is safe for yellow metals but it should work until the MT90 gets ordered.
All this to avoid ordering?
Amsoil MTG
Just use a fluid that is KNOWN to work really well. Yes you probably have to order. Unless you have a store (Coastal, some Napas) or dealer near by. With PC prices is $15.20/qt
Amsoil MTG
No special meaning, just repeating what is on the bottle. I can only go by Chevron lists the oil for my manual trans.as recommended. Toyota just says GL4 or 5 and good to go. They do have a long paragraph of boiler plate disclaimers from Chevron, but I don’t need to be a petroleum scientist for my purposes. I think XDM will be fine. The main problem is actually crawling under and changing the oil. Who knows what previous owners threw in there.
"8.33 mass/wt-% of Potassium Borate in suspension,"
Not ester I was there knew formulators at oronite.
SP is needed for low or high speed scuffing protection cannot remember which, I thought was put into add pak.
Not ester I was there knew formulators at oronite.
SP is needed for low or high speed scuffing protection cannot remember which, I thought was put into add pak.
more info
the OLOA 9750 was the first Borate addtive.
This has a an ester to disperse the solids borate but the borate is Not like in modern engine oils it was a dispersed solid.
After scuffing issues were found in certain applications
they went to adding SP then was called OLOA 9151
S is shown as 4.04%
P is shown as 6.42
As I remember there was some problems with water dissolving the borate out of the oil and then when evaporated on a seal lip the hard deposit that formed caused seal leakage. I think if water ingress was nil or
The biggest improvement was very long fluid life compared at that time (1982) to mineral oil non syn fluids.
In one test truck field test running past 120K miles with very low fe wear 500ppm fe.
Also this type oil (borate) had very low wear rates better when thin so a 75w or 80w oil could provide as good or better protection than a 140.
Offering improved mileage.
Been 40 years kinda forget some of this but neat stuff.
the OLOA 9750 was the first Borate addtive.
This has a an ester to disperse the solids borate but the borate is Not like in modern engine oils it was a dispersed solid.
After scuffing issues were found in certain applications
they went to adding SP then was called OLOA 9151
S is shown as 4.04%
P is shown as 6.42
As I remember there was some problems with water dissolving the borate out of the oil and then when evaporated on a seal lip the hard deposit that formed caused seal leakage. I think if water ingress was nil or
The biggest improvement was very long fluid life compared at that time (1982) to mineral oil non syn fluids.
In one test truck field test running past 120K miles with very low fe wear 500ppm fe.
Also this type oil (borate) had very low wear rates better when thin so a 75w or 80w oil could provide as good or better protection than a 140.
Offering improved mileage.
Been 40 years kinda forget some of this but neat stuff.
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