737 MAX 10

[Just a civilian pilot]

Anyone who wants more legroom should avoid flying on ( Ultra ) low cost discount carriers.

Most want the cheapest airfares and put price above legroom.

If people are willing to pay for more legroom, it’s available but you have to pay more to get it.

Wasn’t Ryan air the ultra low cost airline that pushed to get standing room only on their planes several year ago?

Some would be dumb enough to fly standing room only but complain and sue if they got hurt in flight.

I am average height /slightly bigger than than the average but I do not have any legroom problems when dead heading ( even in “ coach” at times ) but I am not on low cost airlines.

 

[barryh]

Wasn’t Ryan air the ultra low cost airline that pushed to get standing room only on their planes several year ago?

They did seriously propose standing passengers but it didn't get past the regulators. Another proposal is to charge passengers to use the toilet and to cut the number of toilets down from 3 to 1 so that more seats can be fitted.

Ryan air is the cheapest of the cheap airlines for the basic ticket but everything is extra. By the time you have paid for the extras, other budget airlines are often a better deal. I haven't flown with them simply because they sound like a particularly unpleasant organisation. The loud mouth boss once boasted that they had a policy of waking up sleeping passengers so that they could sell them something.

 

[CKN]

Anyone who wants more legroom should avoid flying on ( Ultra ) low cost discount carriers.

Most want the cheapest airfares and put price above legroom.

If people are willing to pay for more legroom, it’s available but you have to pay more to get it.

Wasn’t Ryan air the ultra low cost airline that pushed to get standing room only on their planes several year ago?

Some would be dumb enough to fly standing room only but complain and sue if they got hurt in flight.

I am average height /slightly bigger than than the average but I do not have any legroom problems when dead heading ( even in “ coach” at times ) but I am not on low cost airlines.

If you call three inches between you and the seat in front of you "not a problem" I understand. If you call not being able to even scoot at an angle while in your seat-not a problem. I get it.

 

[GON]

On a 737 MAX 9 right now for a six hour flight. Take a look at the padding on the seat. Sitting in this seat makes me.think I am sitting on a piece of plywood with a plastic sheet on it......

 

[mk378]

Yes but plenty of leg room. That is an exit row isn't it?

 

[GON]

Yes but plenty of leg room. That is an exit row isn't it?

Yes, it is a exit row. Flight was delayed 90 minutes after boarding. In the air about 45 minutes. Even in a exit row the seat is brutal. Seven and a half hours in this seat.. just a unnecessary level of large discomfort moments after sitting in the seat.

For a economy passenger on a flight of any measurable time- this aircraft is a disaster in so many ways.

 

[PimTac]

On a 737 MAX 9 right now for a six hour flight. Take a look at the padding on the seat. Sitting in this seat makes me.think I am sitting on a piece of plywood with a plastic sheet on it......

View attachment 155589

For me the seats and the aircraft are two different things. Airlines buy seats that go on different types of aircraft. But I agree, the seat can make or break a trip.

Years ago we flew Cathay Pacific from YVR to HKG and back. This was on a 777 and it had what I call slouch seats. They don’t recline but instead the seat part moves forward and the back lowers. Apparently these were a recent addition to the fleet. That was a very uncomfortable flight and my back reminded me for several days after each trip.

When I looked at the reviews online for Cathay I was not surprised to see a ton of comments about those seats and they were all negative.

Since then other airlines have adopted those types of seats but they have made some subtle changes because the newer seats are not as bad as those were.

 

[y_p_w]

Yes, it is a exit row. Flight was delayed 90 minutes after boarding. In the air about 45 minutes. Even in a exit row the seat is brutal. Seven and a half hours in this seat.. just a unnecessary level of large discomfort moments after sitting in the seat.

For a economy passenger on a flight of any measurable time- this aircraft is a disaster in so many ways.

There’s nothing inherent about the aircraft that makes the seating bad. That’s an airline decision. Here’s a review of the Southwest MAX 8.

Southwest Airlines' Boeing 737 MAX Isn't All That Bad - TravelUpdate

I recently flew on Southwest Airlines' Boeing 737 MAX. While many travelers prefer older generation 737s, I found the 737 MAX to be a comfortable ride.

travelupdate.com

 

[GON]

There’s nothing inherent about the aircraft that makes the seating bad. That’s an airline decision. Here’s a review of the Southwest MAX 8.

Southwest Airlines' Boeing 737 MAX Isn't All That Bad - TravelUpdate

I recently flew on Southwest Airlines' Boeing 737 MAX. While many travelers prefer older generation 737s, I found the 737 MAX to be a comfortable ride.

travelupdate.com

Yes, but with a *.

Airlines are buying the MAX with one goal in mind- densification on steroids. Some airlines are using stronger steroids than others, but at the end of the day putting up to 220 PAX in a narrow body aircraft initially designed for about half the PAX count is a disaster for PAX comfort, safety, and overall well-being.

If one doesn't fly every day, not as big of a deal. Fly every day one sees the direct and indirect negative impact on the well-being of PAX of narrow body aircraft with this kind of densification. I can't speak for UA or DL MAXs, but on AA and AS MAXs, just trying to use the latrine is a major endeavor, and a complete lack of dignity and respect by the airlines with this kind of configuration.

 

[y_p_w]

Yes, but with a *.

Airlines are buying the MAX with one goal in mind- densification on steroids. Some airlines are using stronger steroids than others, but at the end of the day putting up to 220 PAX in a narrow body aircraft initially designed for about half the PAX count is a disaster for PAX comfort, safety, and overall well-being.

If one doesn't fly every day, not as big of a deal. Fly every day one sees the direct and indirect negative impact on the well-being of PAX of narrow body aircraft with this kind of densification. I can't speak for UA or DL MAXs, but on AA and AS MAXs, just trying to use the latrine is a major endeavor, and a complete lack of dignity and respect by the airlines with this kind of configuration.

Some airlines have made the 737 MAX rather cushy. The 1+1 configuration on flyDubai seems rather nice. And the 3+3 economy seating doesn't look too bad.

 

[GON]

Some airlines have made the 737 MAX rather cushy. The 1+1 configuration on flyDubai seems rather nice. And the 3+3 economy seating doesn't look too bad.

Yes, maybe a Middle Eastern government owned Airline has a better incentive to treat passengers with a bit of dignity and respect, when compared to other most other MAX operators such as American Airlines and Ryan Air.

Flydubai (Arabic: فلاي دبي), legally Dubai Aviation Corporation (Arabic: مؤسسة دبي للطيران[2]), is an Emirati government-owned low-cost airline in Dubai, United Arab Emirates with its head office and flight operations in Terminal 2 of Dubai International Airport.[3] The airline operates a total of 114 destinations, serving the Middle East, Africa, Asia and Europe from Dubai.[4] The company slogan is Get Going.

 

[y_p_w]

Yes, maybe a Middle Eastern government owned Airline has a better incentive to treat passengers with a bit of dignity and respect, when compared to other most other MAX operators such as American Airlines and Ryan Air.

Flydubai (Arabic: فلاي دبي), legally Dubai Aviation Corporation (Arabic: مؤسسة دبي للطيران[2]), is an Emirati government-owned low-cost airline in Dubai, United Arab Emirates with its head office and flight operations in Terminal 2 of Dubai International Airport.[3] The airline operates a total of 114 destinations, serving the Middle East, Africa, Asia and Europe from Dubai.[4] The company slogan is Get Going.

But there's nothing to prevent the use of tight seating in older aircraft. I wouldn't blame anything specifically on the introduction of the 737 MAX.

 

[GON]

But there's nothing to prevent the use of tight seating in older aircraft. I wouldn't blame anything specifically on the introduction of the 737 MAX.

There are numerous constraints on increasing PAX density on older aircraft. Has it been done, absolutely, but the constraints prevent the density the MAX provides on a MACRO basis.

There is much, much than the PAX density that makes the MAX a disaster for those who fly regularly, especially if older and on longer flights. I am glad you support Boeing and you more likely than not are not a frequent flier on MAX series jets on flights over three hours. I sense if you were- your replies in this thread might be different.

 

[97prizm]

Two engines are always going to be more efficient than four. I suppose the only way would have been to redesign it around two engines.

GE tested the genx 90 on one side of a 747 years ago. From what I saw it produced more power than both current engines put together on one side of a 747.

 

[4WD]

Boeing deserves every criticism for the Max. The decision to build it. The implementation of MCAS. All of it. Not a fan.

But not every Boeing is a bad airplane.

Boeing changed the industry and the world with the 747.

Airbus spent billions trying to beat it, with the A-380.

They ended up with an overpriced, overweight, money-losing white elephant that airlines are trying desperately to unload.

The contemporary 787, developed at the same time as the A-380, has sold over 1,000 aircraft, and is back-ordered for the next ten years.

Don’t leave out this game changer - I took the first Chicago to Frankfurt B777 even though most of them after were CO or post merger UA out of Houston or Newark … (+ many other carriers) …
Much as I loved the 47 and now 87 - I know which WB got me all the platinum cards …

Boeing 777 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[4WD]

For me the seats and the aircraft are two different things. Airlines buy seats that go on different types of aircraft. But I agree, the seat can make or break a trip.

Years ago we flew Cathay Pacific from YVR to HKG and back. This was on a 777 and it had what I call slouch seats. They don’t recline but instead the seat part moves forward and the back lowers. Apparently these were a recent addition to the fleet. That was a very uncomfortable flight and my back reminded me for several days after each trip.

When I looked at the reviews online for Cathay I was not surprised to see a ton of comments about those seats and they were all negative.

Since then other airlines have adopted those types of seats but they have made some subtle changes because the newer seats are not as bad as those were.

BA had the cradle seats like that - was not worth business fare …