62,000 miles without an oil change

[Pauln]

Hi! I'm a writer researching an article on oil change intervals. I came across an article in the leading German car agazine Auto, Motor und Sport from the 1980's where they ran a VW Golf (1.6 liter gas) for 100,000 km (62,000 miles) without an oil change, and then had the engine torn apart and every moving part mictoscopically analyzed for wear. There was negligable wear, and all within normal paramaters. This was not some stunt, this is a very serious magazine and an independent lab did the analysis. I would be glad to hear your comments, and whether oil change intervals of anything less than manufacturers's recommendations will bring any benefits to an owner who expects to keep their car for a normal length of time. Also, have any of you actually experienced or witnessed an engine failure that verifiably was caused by poor lubrication (like from running a car without changing the oil)? Thanks for your responses.
Paul

 

[addyguy]

I can completely believe this if it was a high-quality synthetic...maybe with a bypass...what type of oil was it? That makes a BIG difference.....

 

[Pauln]

No, it was conventional oil and OEM filter. The test was not designed to show that it is possible to go this far with special oil and filter, but simply to find out what would happen if a driver stopped changing his oil.

 

[bruce381]

As long as oil it topped off to proper level then wear to parts may not be great, the problem is that solids, dirt,debris etc and acids will form sludge etc. which will clog filter and oil gallery and as such will reduce oil flow that is what will kill and engine NO FLOW, dirty oil will not IMHO.
bruce

 

[CBDFrontier06]

I can testify to an engine failure directly related to oil change negligence. 1991 Grand Am 2.3 DOHC, driven its first 26000 miles with the factory oil in the crankcase. The first cold night in Wyoming, the oil turned to gel and didn't pump. Engine siezed on the way out of her apartment complex parking lot and I was sent to tow it to the dealership. After removing the pan, the oil was scooped out of the pan by the heaping spoonful. I don't know if you would blame this on the oil or the temperature...but if the oil had been changed only once or twice, it wouldn't have turned to gel and the engine would not have siezed. But...if the weather had remained hot, the oil may have remained in a fluid state...so you be the judge. I vote that an oil change or two would have saved this engine's life.

 

[wavinwayne]

Quote:

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Hi! I'm a writer researching an article on oil change intervals.....
...have any of you actually experienced or witnessed an engine failure that verifiably was caused by poor lubrication (like from running a car without changing the oil)?....

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Just google "VW + sludge", or "Toyota" + "sludge", or "Dodge" + "sludge". You will find more stories of lubrication-related engine failure than you can shake a stick at.

Happy writing.

 

[lt2000]

I'm more than sure that 62,000 is entirely possible.
gary

 

[JustinH]

I bet if he just changed the filter every 5k and topped it off, he would have gotten alot more use out of it.

 

[Pauln]

The engine was running just fine at 62,000 miles; the test was stopped at that point (100,000 km).

 

[Patman]

Quote:

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I'm more than sure that 62,000 is entirely possible.
gary

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With conventional oil, I highly doubt it. A friend of mine was a service advisor at a GM dealer and he would occasionally see a car come in with a seized engine that had never had it's oil changed ever since new. None of these engines ever made it to 50k, most of them died by about 40k.

 

[Pauln]

Patman: I wonder if these seized engines were allowed to run dry or low on oil? That would seem likely from someone that also never changed their oil. The engine in the test was topped up as necessary.

 

[Patman]

Quote:

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Patman: I wonder if these seized engines were allowed to run dry or low on oil? That would seem likely from someone that also never changed their oil. The engine in the test was topped up as necessary.

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That is an excellent point which I did not think of! If a person was silly enough to never change their oil, they probably didn't check the oil level either!

 

[Gene K]

pauln.. How much consumption did the engine have? If it uses a Liter ever 5,000 km then you are basically changing the oil ever 20,000 km. The less oil an engine consumes the less tolerant it will be of lack of oil changes. A Saturn 1.9L that burns a Qt every 1,000-2,000 mi doesnt need oil changes. A new filter every 6 months to 2 years depending on filter construction would help.

 

[Bryanccfshr]

I siezed a Ford pinto station wagon about 10 years ago. I kept it topped off with whatever motor oil was cheap and eventually one cold morning, instead of cranking I got a loud metalic bang on crank up and that engine never cranked again. Maybe an oil change would have prolonged that piles life..maybe no but that $300 dollar car gave me a good year of service running me back and forth to a refinery with alot of paint overspray and industrial fallout(didn't want to take anything nice to work). Edit to add that it had internal and externeal coolant gushers)

 

[Patman]

Quote:

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pauln.. How much consumption did the engine have? If it uses a Liter ever 5,000 km then you are basically changing the oil ever 20,000 km. The less oil an engine consumes the less tolerant it will be of lack of oil changes. A Saturn 1.9L that burns a Qt every 1,000-2,000 mi doesnt need oil changes. A new filter every 6 months to 2 years depending on filter construction would help.

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A VW Golf from that era probably burned a lot of oil, heck, even the newer 2.0 engines in the newer Golfs still burn oil!! (my mom's 2001 2.0L Golf burns about 1L every 4k, and hers is one of the good ones, I've heard of much worse examples)

 

[Pauln]

Gene K: don't have that info, but given that the lab saw negligable wear on all moving parts, the assumption would be that it wasn't burning any substantial amount. The engine was in normal running condition, and upon examination, the parts looked normal. Obviously, this test meant that the car wasn't being driven short distances, it was part of their long-term test fleet (they regularly test cars for 100,000km), and that usually takes them less than 2 years.

 

[ARB1977]

Sounds like the same idot who wrote the Amsoil artical going 400K on a diesel engine without an oil change.

 

[TR3-2001SE]

Most likely this VW was not in normal use but driven a lot of highway miles to get it to 62,000 miles. Given it was probably topped up and highway miles it is possible.
Before I visited this site I believed 7500 mile oil changes were possible. Now I do 15,000 mile changes and no worries at all.

 

[Quest]

LOL Pauln!

We need hard facts and references, not just brief mentioning of any form of experimentation.

Personally, I would have the same doubt as any of the experienced BITOG posters here RE: mineral oil on 62000miles w/o an oil change, citing the rather rapid deterioriation of the oil base (insoluables, contamination due to blowby(PCV systems), etc.) and also depletion of various additives in the motor oil itself.

This is especially true if that particular vehicle was exposed to regular city stop-n-go driving and real-life operating conditions. If this vehicle/test is set in a laboratory condition not reflective to real-life conditions, you may might as well ignore the outcome.

My thoughts on the subject, YMMV.

 

[herbie]

Easy warmups,driving style,weather and average miles per trip would make a difference.